You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

[Tone Slinger]

I dont think Hendrix used the Uni-Vibe on 'Who Knows', Which, to me ,epitimizes this WHOLE topic of which output tubes was being made. 'Who Knows' is the most 'primal' tone on Bog's. I dont get the full stack as being responsible for the sound difference. I mean, 8 speakers are more than 4 or 2 or 1, but still, its just reinforcement of the fundamental. I realize that more 'air' is being moved, and that 'more' is going on in respect to the shared signal.

But, then again, Eddie Kramer could capture some GREAT tones. Maybe he was able to capture MORE of the SOUND, since there was MORE of it going on (6 cabs/24 speakers). Us player's think differently than 'unattached' (to the guitar that is) producers.

[basile865]

I dont mean to say that a full stack was the secret to the BOG sound. Obviously he was always using full stacks and sounded a good bit different at different venues. I just meant as far as my personal tone quest, going to a full stack with the plexi head made a huge difference in the full clarity warmth on my strat.

[zackd]

I think 90% percent of Hendrix's tone was in his hands. The rest is weak single coil lefty magnet stagger strat pup's, cranked Plexi's,coil cables,his effects,the room, the mix,his volume control. Who knows what he was using as far as tubes in his plexi's. I doubt that Hendrix ever used 6550 in his Marshalls.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, a full stack is definatly the epitomy of 'big amps', and guitar player's (especially Lead guitar player's) love to be heard. Problem is, Full stacks only put out more bad tone than a half stack, if the sound is bad to begin with, like all those horrid 'trashy' sounding over compressed, thin , shitty distortions that many metal dudes get .

But, like your using, to make a good sound even better, well there's the beauty of it.


As having played and 'experienced' (pun intended) alot over the last 33yrs of playing, I disagree about Hendrix having never used 6550's. The Marshall Major's used them to achieve the same thing Hendrix was after. A brand new quad of high quality el-34's (Mullard, Brimer,etc) will stop working efficiently within 1 concert, the way Hendrix ran his amps. They will still work, but not as efficiently, meaning they will 'saturate' (distort) quicker on the amp's volume knob.

Hendrix had too much sparkle and 'glass' in much of his tone, dating as far back as the Royal Albert Hall gig in early '69. If you want to hear the brown, blarring tone of el -34's distorting, listen to anyof the '68 gigs. Not a real good clean to be heard, but some incredible distortions.

[Tone-Freak]

I mean, 8 speakers are more than 4 or 2 or 1, but still, its just reinforcement of the fundamental. I realize that more 'air' is being moved, and that 'more' is going on in respect to the shared signal.

Amps sound different on 8 ohms vs 16

Hendrix had too much sparkle and 'glass' in much of his tone, dating as far back as the Royal Albert Hall gig in early '69. If you want to hear the brown, blarring tone of el -34's distorting, listen to anyof the '68 gigs. Not a real good clean to be heard, but some incredible distortions.

There was a evolution of Marshall circitry in the late 60's. The 68 amps had a 820 ohm resitor on the V1b split cathode. In late 68 or early 69 that changed from 820 ohm to 2.7K ohms. The 820 ohm amps from 68 are more distorted and brown sounding than the 2.7K amps which have more or a spakle and glassy sound. Those Royal Albert Hall amps were most likly new and 2.7K amps with EL34's

[Tone Slinger]

I disagree. I am well aware of the circuit tweaks along the way. I am also aware of how power tubes react when being pushed. I definatly hear a much more efficient output tube on most all the early '69 to the end.

I respect everyone's input here on the forum's. I've learned alot and continue to. I dont want any hard feelings over disagrements.

[Tone-Freak]

I disagree. I am well aware of the circuit tweaks along the way. I am also aware of how power tubes react when being pushed. I definatly hear a much more efficient output tube on most all the early '69 to the end.

I respect everyone's input here on the forum's. I've learned alot and continue to. I dont want any hard feelings over disagrements.

Have you tried the different circuts i have. My super trem/lead is a split cathode amp and has the 2.7k V1B and i tried the earlier 820 which made it more distorted. There is no way to know for shure about the tubes a lot of speculation but mine is deffently a lot cleaner than it was with a 820 ohm resistor. It gets a beautiful spakly glassyness when the guitar volume is turned down and the amp around 8:D

[Xplorer]

hello,
i don't pretend to have found the stuff, everyone here have some ways to get close to bog tone.

but i have a theory now. while i played with my new metroamp 69 100 w, pure stock, sozo, el 34, i had a poor univibe plugged, wich isn't that poor and that i even prefer to my voodoo vibe hand signed by roger mayer ( i'm gonna get a much better clone soon, it has four different colors of sounds, from resly to shinei , to some others, and the great tone. a prototype ) , i mean the first dunlop as simple as that.

and the really simple thing, that could have been true, ( and that could make sense, when you hear the different concerts at the fillmore. there's one night wich is much more special .... ) , is that hendrix might just have switched between vibrato and vibe, with the univibe allways on, a decreased volume , not too much intensity ( machine gun doesn't sound univibe with an intensity at ten , no, no .. )

for who knows, the thing that we almost never think about i suppose, is that there was the vibato of the univibe; you don't think of this first, because you don't even hear the effect, you really have to listen carefully, and anyway,it's more noticeable when you have longer notes than what hendrix mostly did for who knows and the others, especialy melted with fuzz, wah, octavia ... )

so for machine gun, he just switched the vibrato to the vibe, ( that's what came to me just because i'm starting since these last month to appreciate this effect much more especialy for electric ladyland ) : then you hear the effect of the vibe, much much more, as much as what you hear in machine gun, without changing the intensity, the volumes etc ...

it really makes sense to me. he just switched with his foot from white to red for machine gun, on his univibe, and without touching the settings of the univibe. the other concerts didn't really have that tone, with the same amp i think, the same theater, the same stage, the same recording and processing ....

i just tryed again with some other titles of this special concerts, and it was it for the clean tones and the thickness of the sound. jimi certainly tryed to use every possibilitys of the small amount of effects available at that time.

i'm gonna get an ac128 germanium fuzz clone soon, for cheap. at ben rod.


maybe there was 6550, or el34, i don't know. i want to try the 6550, but alleady now, i was jaming arround who knows at same level , and without who knows, and it really sound very very close.
when you shut the univibe, it goes back to a more distorted sound, and you loose a little thing wich is to me a part of the equation. it'll maybe be even better with some 6550.
my settings are ( with an spl transducer, speaker simulator, as i can't have a real cab in my little room, with neighbours, even if my sound is loud ) presence 0 _ bass 10 _ middle 10 _ treble 9 _ vol 1 7,5 _
vol 2 : between 3-6 . i plug my strat with low inductance pickups into the normal channel , down, and i do a bridge between normal up and bright down. neck pickup, lowered down, as high as the pickguard.

on my simple dunlop stuff, i have the speed on 6,6, the volume on 7,5 , and the intensity on 1,5.

then add a little reverb just to try to simulate the room and that's nice to jam with this bog tone with jimi

it really colors the sound in a nice way, organic, you don't hear the effect, and it makes the signal lower before the amp... then you get the clean tone but thick, with nice breaks up. then with the fuzz when needed, i guess you have the high distortion and feedbacks.

i think it really might have been the case that night, perhaps getting almost any 68-69 amp variations into this territory.
in electric ladyland, he uses the vibrato, and there you hear it a lot more, but i suspect jimi to have used this effect more than what we think, not really noticeable to search in that direction.

i looooove my amp ! thanks metroamp ! i just dig the sound, it's all freedom ! ; )
and thank you Jimi^^

[Xplorer]

Here is what Ray Spitzer, a gret hendrixian guitarist, and a friend of Buddy miles and Billy Cox told me this afternoon ( by the way, he's selling his original univibe on ebay, buddy miles also played this one ) :

"Billy doesn't remember much these days and really wasn't into Jimi's electronics. But I'd say that Buddy told me that Jimi changed his tubes from EL34 to USA 6550 for his Marshall Amps then. Roger Mayer had made him a new Fuzz Face that had more sustain than fuzz.Not sure about the speakers"

i think that it's quite an info ...
here is ray Spitzer playing Star spalnged banner :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llJz_JZdgd4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

what a tone !

great guy, with a big knowledge on jimi, according to buddy miles :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C10QALWIFAc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Tone Slinger]

I have heard so many conflicting stories concerning Hendrix's amps. I will say that as early as late winter/spring (forgot the gig dates) of '69, I heard unmistakable 6550 tone in Hendrix's amps. The last British gigs with Noel.

I continued to hear that '6550' tone all the way up through to the end.

There are 2 gig tones that are very perplexing and confusing in my mind, those being Woodstock and the BOG shows. Those 2 gigs stand out from the other's. No matter the fuzz box, I hear a slight difference.

[Xplorer]

i don't know enough about it, and i didn't try the 6550 yet ( by the way, wich one would you advice to me ? there are so many options : NOS, reissue, this brand or that brand ... tung sol ,old tung sol ..... )

do you think it can be about the preamp tubes ?

[Tone Slinger]

I think as long as the preamp tubes(12ax7) are fairly high gain and low noise (reissue tung sol's are good I hear), then they should be fine. However, the out put tubes are gonna give a different 'feel' and tone.

Since nobody was there to document 100 % what tubes Hendrix had in those Super Leads used at Woodstock or BOG's gigs, then we can only speculate.

El-34's and lower wattage speakers were used earlier for sure ('67-'68).

Hendrix seemed to go for more volume by early '69, so either he or some tech got the idea of higher wattage, more efficient speakers, along with the same requirements, regarding the output tubes.

6550 is definately what I hear in alot of the '69 to '70 stuff. It has a harder, almost sterile type quality. I think Hendrix's clean tone improved during this time, but, his distorted tones (fuzz face circuit changed also) weren't as warm as the live '68 stuff.

I am only speculating, because this stuff was never 100 % documented, but I think there were only 3 type's of output tubes that could have been used, those being EL-34, 6CA7 or 6550.

[yngwie308]

I have a theory, maybe it was difficult to get the British spec valves whilst on tour in the States, I had a hard enough time tracking down new power valves for my Super Lead in London, back in 1970 or so, having to go to radio specialty shops for them.
Jim Marshall's shop did not sell valves at all or any amp parts!
So Jimi's '69 era Marshall's. the West Coast Organ Company or whatever that distributor was called, perhaps they were tubed with 6550's, who knows. I'm sure if I had trouble finding Mullard EL 34's in London, Gerry Stickells would have had an even harder time finding proper English EL 34's, this may be part of the answer, giving it some thought..
yngwie308

[aquilarosso]

Any chance he used Sylvania 6CA7s?
I just installed some in my 1987 and it reminds a fair bit of Hendrix. They have a glassy sparkle to them, really smooth break up and compression and well defined bass. I have never heard of Jimi using them, but Jimi's was the first sound that came to mind when I heard these tubes in my amp.

[Tone Slinger]

I agree. I often hear a similarity to Jimi's 'Woodstock' tone (like 'VILLANOVA JUNCTION') and EVH's (like on VH2, DOA for ex.) Ed has been TOTALLY documented as a 6ca7 user.

Man, no wonder Mullard el-34's are going for so much now. Being hard to find in London in '70 means that even then , they were a very in demand specimen.