You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon May 26, 2008 5:39 pm

Hey everybody. Ive been doing some serious critical listening through high quality headphones comparing Dan's 6550, EL34 and the original Band of Gypsies Who Knows tone (especially at the 5 second mark to the 15 second mark of the original recording of who knows).

My initial feelings direct me towards 34's but dan feels strongly that its the 6550's.

Ive been listening to those 10 seconds and comparing them for 30 minutes now. What do you guys feel about it?

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Mon May 26, 2008 7:26 pm

Whats up Rob ? Man, I tell ya, my old '73 super lead had been converted to 6550 when I got it (origional ones). I recall plying my buddies strat through it at the time ('91). I had a 25 watt loaded Marshall 4/12 as well. I thought BOG's, but my buddy REALLY was thinking BOG's (at the time, I was looking for more distortion and less headroom,ala EVH and G. Lynch).

Dans clips with the 6550's really do sound great,and very,very much like BOG's. The only thing that confuses me, is that in very known, obvious examples of Hendrix using the 6550's (all of the '70 tour) his cleans were that 'stiff' sorta thing that the 6550 imparts, whereas the BOG's were WARM, like el-34.

Here again, in the '69 shows, it sounds like a cross between the two tube types (info points to the 6550 here,as well as my ears) thogh it was obviously the 6550's. There's 2 shows that sound 'unique' as far as discerning which tube type was used, those being 'Woodstock' and the 'Fillmore' shows.

I, thanks in large part to Dan, have concluded that Hendrix WASNT using a Super Bass, but WAS using a Super Lead. I also now think the power tubes were 6550's.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon May 26, 2008 7:45 pm

hey andy hows it goin - thanks for the response. Yea I agree that it wasnt a superbass because that would probably be too bold and round sounding with a lack of character. Im still not sure about 6550s - what 70's concerts would be good to listen to in which hes using them for sure?

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon May 26, 2008 8:28 pm

I really havent concluded anything lol. Having owned a 70 superbass for several years and having a few clones that I can get both sounds with I think its clear if you actually have both to try out Basses just dont have the same midrange and too much breakup int he low end where Leads kinda boom in the low end. But if proof comes out that it was a Bass Ill just have to rethink things lol. The day pictures come out from the new years eve show with closeups of the back panel then you can say for sure.

I WILL get those comparison clips together this week. Ill leave the mic placement and settings the same and just record a few riffs with each.

I dont know that Id get crazy about it. The amp sounds 95% the same with either tube. Its not nearly as cut and dry as the Bass vs Lead thing. If you ask me, sure Ill say I think its clearly 6550s for several reasons and I dont think I can get there with EL34s but that doesnt mean Im right. I think I am. Ive gone back and forth and have several specific reasons, not just I think the vibe is more BoG. And even if it truly was theres no guarantee youd like them. They are certainly more stiff. Which is more a problem if you have too much overdrive. I have low output pickups that are low to the pickguard and run the amp on about 7-8 with everything dimed. Presence on 0. It doesnt break up that much unless you really slam the strings and teh breakup has a hard edge to it. I think it works well with a strat. And also something that isnt really discussed if he was daisy chaining more then one stack, the input resistors would combine and load the signal down so it would be even cleaner. You could simulate that effect by jumping to the normal channel then just leaving the normal volume on 0.

But like I said. Its not something Id get overly concerned with. If you have some spare cash one of these days pick up a set and try it out and then youll know for sure. If your not into it put em up on the classifieds.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:10 pm

OK. I just made 2 quiki Who Knows clips. I didnt change anything at all between them. But I dont know overall how useful these will be. Ill try to make some better ones. For one I was playing extremely subdued because it was fairly loud and its kinda late. And Im also playing cold after not really playing for a week. Also I didnt really check levels or recording quality or anything. I know I was clipping the pre a bit on the 6550 one since the amp was a good bit louder. Anyway. Its a start.

Even so I think its pretty clear. EL34s are kinda flat and muddy ont he neck pup for this sound. The 6550s have that real purcussive deep low end and scooped shimmery highs.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:50 pm

hey thanks dan for putting some clips together for me. This time it was even harder to decide haha. Almost seemed like there was less of a difference between the 6550 and the EL34 on the most recent comparison. If I had to choose though, I liked the most recent 6550 clips tone better.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:10 pm

So I'm sure everyones read this a hundred times but I figured I'd throw it into the mix:

In 1969, the Experience began using the services of West Coast Organ & Amp Repair in Hollywood, California, to prepare and maintain their equipment.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:58 am

Speaks for itself doesnt it. If its true its true. If its not true the guy was lying because.......??? Dont know why but it also possible he stopped using them but the Filmore east shows were in 69. The end of 69 anyway.

It sounds technical but all he's really saying he did was rebias them. The 75Wer speaker thing I dont know. Id have to try them out but first would be locating some old 75Wers or clones which I dont even know if anyone does any.

The 2 clips are close. I mean the difference like I said was maybe 5%. Maybe a bit more but the amp sounds pretty similar. I dont think different tubes would account for the huge tonal difference on different recordings. I think its all about the room and recording. Theres certain qualities I just prefer 6550s for with strats. If you have any decent amount of overdrive Id prefer to go with EL34s but with the just breaking up sound and a strat neck EL34s are kinda dull by comparison. If your dialing in your setup for more overdrive and a brighter sound then 6550s are stiff and hard.

Ill work on making decent clips with a different riff. Maybe Power of Love.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am

Yea man, well I def appreciate all your help on this tone quest. Youre the only one I ever heard get close to whats going on in the BOG. It might just be a mystery forever which is cool. But of course that room must have some input on what we're hearing. You said you acquired some stuff that was jimi's rig straight into the board without the room ambiance right? Id really truly love to hear that.

Its funny because Ive heard that recording so many damn times youd think I'd be sick of it, but Ive moved past his playing and Im just focusing on the nuances of the single notes and his tone and it still floors me everytime to the point of laughing. I dont think any player that ever walked the earth ever hit me so hard with soul like that. I know theres some soulful players out there but that BOG stuff just simply floors me.

shakti · Post by **shakti** » Tue May 27, 2008 12:13 pm

Dan,

those clips with the 6550s is probably the closest I've heard anyone get, kudos!! While that, as you say, doesn't prove or disprove anything, it's certainly interesting.

On the BoG recording, don't forget the acoustics of the venue, the properties of the recording (console, preamps, mikes) and the fact that you're hearing the guitar in a band setting. Add in the fact that he's running three full stacks with the effects of daisy chaining, and the possibility that the amps may all be different and possibly run different tubes, and it becomes obvious that finding one single amp/tube/speaker setup to nail it 100% is just about impossible.

However, we can still try to get closer, and like I said, this is about as close as I've heard anyone yet...

What were the specs of the amp you're using here? Filtering, cathode, coupling caps, OT...

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue May 27, 2008 2:25 pm

Just 69 Lead specs. 6550s. G12H30-s. 55The filtering is lower tho.

shakti · Post by **shakti** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:27 pm

Sorry, can you be more specific? Is the filtering 6 x 50+50, or the 2 x100 + 2 x 32(?) inside, and single can on top? 2.7k or 820 ohm V1a resistor? 0.022 or 0.0022 channel 1 first stage coupling cap?

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue May 27, 2008 4:53 pm

I think Im 50/16/16/16/16. Or maybe 50/16/32/16/16. The cans are facing into the headcab. Id prefer to try this tone out with stock 69 filtering and see if that may be better. This amp was built on a custom 6 can chassis.

The only other thing I think may not be stock is that my bright channel coupler is 4n7.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue May 27, 2008 5:07 pm

The clips are GREAT Dan ! I'll concede that in a S. Lead, the 6550 is better with single coil's,insofar as they keep that tight,percusive character, that El-34's lose when you push them. Marshall w/6550's & strat ='s the ultimate in big,bold 'Fender' kinda tone. By contrast, S. Lead/6550's and a humbucker equiped guitar sound very sterile and cold,sorta like Zakk Wylde. Not very warm and furry distortion going on there.

I'm convinced by your clips Dan. In my mind the BOG's set-up isnt a mystery anymore.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:09 pm

Yeah I really cant do the 6550s with humbuckers. But it works for me. Im not really a fan of Leads with humbuckers. I like a more singing tone. So Ill use the 67 for the hums. Its a good dual setup.

Metropoulos Forum

You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Do you feel the Band of Gypsies tone is El34s or 6550s?

You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550