You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Brandon · Post by **Brandon** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:09 pm

When you guys talk about Band Of Gypsys, are you talking about the 1970 "Band of Gypsys" album or the 1999 "Live at the Fillmore East" album"?

Are they different or the same show?

Tone seaker · Post by **Tone seaker** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:19 pm

I believe they are all the same. They were recorded over two days. Two shows per day. New years eve 1969 and New years day 1970. But we are talking about the album which was recorded at one of the New years day shows

Xplorer · Post by **Xplorer** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:25 pm

we're talking mostly about this sound :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKqLEN746cY&feature=fvst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO9wO_SD ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mynameisfritz · Post by **Mynameisfritz** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:34 pm

Alright, it’s done. In these tracks I wanted concentrate on the changes in the clean sound when the signal runs through some classic and KR Hendrix effects. I first recorded a reference track, my blonde 70’s heavy maple Strat straight into the amp – my 1969 JMP 1986 – in an 4x12 cap loaded with 2 Pre- and 2 Rola G12H30 75Hz Pulsonic cones. Here’s the list:

1 Strat straight into 1986 http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

2 Dual Drive (buffered) in bypass mode http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

3 Gypsy Fuzz http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

4 Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face with BC 209’s http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

5 Dual Drive http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

6 Shin Ei Univibe, bypass mode / Dual Drive http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

7 Univibe on / Dual Drive http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

8 KR Megavibe / Dual Drive (a bit too much 'intensity' on the Megavibe) http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

Miked with an SM57 and an SM58>Allen Heath WZ162>Alesis HD24>Protools

It was great fun. We recorded a Spanish Castle Magic jam too. Check it out. 
http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:43 am

Sounds great Fritz ! Love the playing and tones. You nailed some great Hendrix stuff there.

heatpad · Post by **heatpad** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:46 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd57C7wSvS4[/youtube]

harkkam08 · Post by **harkkam08** » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:22 am

So guys if I wanted to change my El34 amp and run 6550 tubes I would have to change the bias resistors, the 220k to ?

Other wise just drop them in correct?

Thanks guys. So far here is the modifications I am going to make on the amp.

1. Split Cathode to Shared
2. Hopefully 6550 tubes ( I want to try them for myself)

Anything else that can be recommended in the AMP itself and part values, excluding speakers etc.

If I change the tone stack suppose from 33k/500pf to 22k/330uf what will that do?

What if you connected a 50k linear pot there instead and hooked it up to the back this way you could dial in the resistance and change it depending on your mood and pedals?

How do the part values here affect tone, sorry guys but Im a bit lost on how it works.

Thanks again guys

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:27 pm

I'd go straight '69 era value for Hendrix. There are lots of tubes you can try (different types of el-34,6ca7,kt-77,6550,kt-88). Hendrix obviously only used el-34 and 6550's in his Marshalls (well maybe some kt-66/77's early on).

I voted 6550 on this, but I always change my mind. Currently I think that Maybe the BOG amp heads may have been 'Known' good/new one's, since the recorded shows were already being set up. If that is the case, then the amps would have probably had Mullard or Brimar (relabeled Mullards) or possibly Siemans El-34's. Hendrix's crew/management probably thought it best to get a few new heads for the Capitol live recording. Probably picked them up at Manny's

I know that Hendrix had previously used 6550s from early '69 on. The Royal Albert Hall gig in early '69 is TOTALL 6550 tone. As is The Rainbow Bridge stuff. BOG may have had the distinction of being el-34. I'd wager that it was a very 'short lived' return to El-34's, since by the May LA Forum gig sounds like 6550s again.

Mynameisfritz · Post by **Mynameisfritz** » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Thanks for your replys. A few additional infos/thoughts about the tracks:
JMP 1896: plugged in the upper left input, Volume on 4.

The Baldringer Dual Drive is a 2 channel overdrive unit by Dirk Baldringer from Cologne. I prefer this over any other unit I owned - so far. Here's a link to his site with more sound files. http://www.dual-drive.de/sounds.htm

I like the sound of those two fuzz faces with the guitar volume dimed.

And I think Ray Spitzer is right when he talks about the importance of the Univibe. The Cancel-switch in the speedpedal just switches of the oscillation, not the coloration of the sound. So as soon as the Univibe is part of the signal chain, the overall sound is different due to the silicon inside. The Megavibe is a different story because of its true bypass.
Both vibes sound great anyway. The pots on the Megavibe have a wider range, that’s why I got a little too much intensity there.

I should have done a track just with the Univibe in bypass position, without the Dual Drive. I’ll do that next time. And I will try some 6550’s in this amp.

Sorry for my crappy English.

Mynameisfritz · Post by **Mynameisfritz** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:05 pm

Some GE 6550's are on the way now.

What you hear in my clips are Mullards and Siemens EL34. Split cathode of course.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:48 pm

Love your clips man, keep them coming . I have always loved the 'HOUSE BURNING DOWN' tone. Very much has a Fuzz face/phase/flange type thing going on. Whereas BOG's is sort 'known' and imitatible, much of the Electric Ladyland album was 'studio' trickery' that is VERY hard to recapture.

Tone seaker · Post by **Tone seaker** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:57 am

yesterday I tuned my strat down to E flat and turned on my 68 super lead with EL34's. I then turned my Deja Vibe 2 on vibrato not chorus and it sounded close. I then loosened up the two screws on the claw letting my bridge float on my strat and WOW there was the Machine gun tone nailed. I was amazed that floating my bridge only .002 from decked made this big of a difference. I usually have it close to decked about .002 clearance so if I break a string at a gig it stays in tune. But when I tune down it decks harder so I loosened the claw screws so it was the same .002 and a huge difference. It sounded so good I did not want to go back. I use normal tuning though for gigging and jamming as it is easier to jam with other people. I wonder if you could strip the wood out screwing the claw in and out a lot. I am convinced from this that it is EL 34's

VintageCharlie · Post by **VintageCharlie** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:57 pm

I've been following this and many other gear-related threads for a long time and one thing always makes me wonder - if one can't tell by ear if it is a 67 or 68 100w, or sometimes even, if it is a 66 (as there are so many variables involved), how could one ever tell the difference between el34 and 6550 in the same amp? Even in a particular model of amp there are so many components where tolerances influence the tone - there's no way of telling such nuances by listening to an amp that you had not the chance to check out yourself out live. Listening to the initial comparison clips for this thread i always "felt" it sounded more like 6550, but then i realized, that it's just the case with the particular amp that they were tested on, the results might be different on another amp with same spec. I simply don't worry about this anymore since i see that i myself can't tell the difference between a particular Marshall model used on a record that i like the tone of - honestly - lots of the models sound REALLY close, especially on a recording, in a mix, etc. On some demo clips i have even hard time telling between a 50w and 100w of the same year. I "hear" the difference when i know which is which, but in a blind test... recorded... in a mix... i don't know - it's not that obvious anymore, to tell the least. I've heard lots of convincing Jimi tones from a 50w, without the compression one would expect from this amp.

RaySpitzer · Post by **RaySpitzer** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:54 pm

You can check out my version of Machine Gun on Youtube. It is titled Machine Gun 2. The backing tracks recorded are Buddy Miles drums and vocals and Billy Cox bass ans vocals. I have a recorded version that only has the drums, bass and vocals so that I can jam to this track. I used a Voodoo Labs Microvibe pedal with a weak 9 volt battery. A Sam McRae custom germaniums Jim Dunlop blue Fuzz Face pedal that has a LED light and 9 volt power adapter. A Jim Dunlop 535Q Multiwha pedal that is 18 volts and uses 2 9 volt batteries. The Cry Baby has 18 db boost option on the bottom pot and a varible Q tone pot also on the bottom. Sorry I call all Wha pedals Cry Baby reguardless of the brand unless it's a Korg Synthapedal. Thomas, Dunlop, Vox etc... I use them the same way for the most part. The amp that I used is my 1980 Marshall JMP Mark2 50wt. With 4x12" Celestions 25wt. vintage greenbacks. Volume is at about 2 with master on 10. Middle on 4 bass on 7 and treble on 5, presence in on 0. Machine Gun 2 is on YouTube.com/Ray Spitzer. Just jamming,

Tone seaker · Post by **Tone seaker** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:11 am

can you provide a link I cant find the one with Buddy Miles and Billy Cox

Metropoulos Forum

You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Do you feel the Band of Gypsies tone is El34s or 6550s?

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

Re: You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550