OK, sorry BUT I have a question regarding 6550s

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:29 pm

Tube Tramp told me a while back that if I was to use 6550's, I better be pretty fond of overdrive pedals meaning I wasnt really going to get any kind of natural tube overdrive. If jimi was using 6550s in the band of gypsies and was NOT using a fuzz on the beginning of who knows, wouldnt that indicate that it was not a 6550? Because he was getting a really great thick sound with a pinch of overdrive on it.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:46 pm

It doesnt make that much of a difference. Its a bit less drive and a harder, more open kind of breakup but you heard my clips. Thy were both set the same. Its not that different. The drive amount is nearly the same. You can keep talking about it until your blue in the face but theres only one way youll know what they sound like and I feel like theres too much emphasis on this area anyway.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:25 pm

TT reference might have meant something else. Pre-amp distortion is not going to change at all and the 6550/EL34s don't add distortion as much as compression, sustain and slight change in EQ. Maybe he meant it will sound louder so you'll need the pedals in order to keep the volume down.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:47 pm

The 6550 tubes put into a amp that had el-34 will make the amp have more 'sheen' or 'shine' for lack of a better word. You will feel a harder quicker attack, that raking and groove oriented 'chinka chinka' riffs really shine on. The warmer more mid, smooth type overdrive is more apparent with the el-34 way earlier on the volume knob, but at a loss of a complex clean type thing. I think a strat with the 6550 Marshall thing is a great combo. Sort of gives a Marshall a bit of the extra clean headroom of a Fender, as well as the more complex cleans of a Fender, but still retains that Marshall warmth and attitude. I agree with Billy, get you a nice qaud of 6550's.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:45 pm

I'll be broke for a bit (suprise suprise) but Im just trying to decide on whats the most crucial weak link in my setup right now. Celestion 75 watters, lack of a good distortion/fuzz/overdrive pedal, stock pickups, or stock marshall EL34 powertubes. Ive got a NOS RCA 12ax7 and two modern mullards which I love - they made the amp change like night and day. Ive also got stock components inside minus a bright cap. Stock transformers. Then Ive got standard straight fender cables no curlys. So Im trying to break down by really whats crucial to making this baby shine.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:23 am

Well guys that are more into the bridge hb'er thing (EVH forums, myself to an extent) will say "Lose the 75 watters, and get some 25's in there". But, I think the 75 watt speakers are great for retaining more of that focused sound, especially with keeping the strats neck pu lacy and defined. Maybe 'Vintage 30's' (actually a 65 watt speaker, I think) would also be good in this application ? I think getting the dagnall clone ot would also be a pleasant fix. The tubes are a biggy as well, as they, like 908 mentioned, "change the eq" of the amp to an extent.

Also Rob, a vintage style strat is a very big factor. Are you still using the A. Standard ? The combintion of the vintage block and 6 screw to the body, along with the 7 1/4 fretboard radius are factors. Even if things 'sound' similar on recorded playbacks of ab'ed guitars, like a 2 pivot bridge (9 1/2 fretboard) vs. a 6 screw 'vintage (& 1/4 fretboard), I guarantee you that in a real improvising/jam situation that the 'feel' of the tone will lead you to different places, thus affecting your sound due to what you played.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:42 pm

The fact that you didnt think my amp was cranked in my clips makes me also wonder about your guitar. A vintage style strat with the pickups at medium or low height wont get you much more gian then what I have in my clips unless the pickups are on the very hot side. I guess I was about 7-8ish. 3 oclock.

You were talking before about the roundness thing with your amp. I think I know now what you mean. Its soemthing that I find common to british tubes- EL34s, EL84s and even KT66s. They have this compressed, rubbery, tube-y quality to them. American tubes are more open sounding imo. They breath a bit more which means they feel a little cleaner and less compressed (and with humbuckers that could even seem stiff and hard) but I think taht works well with strats. Is it night and day? I dont think so but you thought the NOS pre's were so maybe.

Speakers are imo the largest part of it as far as potential to change the sound. Should you get others. I cant say really. But you were writing me about my clips. Forget which tubes you have. I think you shouldnt have a hard time getting there with the stuff you have. Presence on 0, everything else on 10 and bring the volume up to about 7-8ish on just the bright channel and thats about it. If that doesnt get you at least in the area you want Id question how much your really into marshalls seeing how you know you love fenders and werent you raving about an ampeg? Because the bright channel especially with the bright cap is unusable to you. The normal channel and too much bass is too round. It may sound very pretty on record but when you play a marshall in person theyre very raw sounding. If I could Id march my gear over there and jam for a while.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:36 pm

I most definately agree about the feel of the vintage setup strat leading you to different approaches. My buddies strat who I play real often is 9.5 radius but has the vintage bridge and it is a different feel. As far as my pickups go I wouldnt say theyre hot really, or even hotter than most pickups in general. Theyre a pretty basic set I'd say. BUT, in comparison to billy batz clips my amp seems to overdrive more, maybe because Im jumping the channels together? I could absolutley hear an immediate difference in gain by swapping out the stock 12ax7's. The stocks were probably a bit more gainy but harsh. The NOS RCA and two new mullards smoothed out the amp greatly and really warmed it up as well. I was ecstatic after hearing the NOS for the first time it really made that much of a difference. I even tried a Groove Tubes prior to that and in comparison it made the amp hum louder and was just horrible - I'll never waste money on any GT product again, but thats just me.

It wasnt an Ampeg but a 410 Music Man that I was real crazy about, funny thing was the tubes burned out on me one day, I forget the brand but they were orignal to the amp. My buddy had it retubed with something else I forget the brand, but, now its a whole different amp. Still nice but most definately lost some magic.

I spent some time playing on an american 62 reissue one day while waiting for the guitar tech to finish his fret dress on mine. I spent about two hours noodling on that guitar through a Germino amp. Got mine back, it played nice but it sounded like it had a blanket over it. Pickups are most definately a weak link in my chain. That germino was killer - I could plug directly into the bright channel without any kind of brightness.

I think possibly the first semi cheap thing to do might be pickups. Thats quite possibly the culprit to the round sound or a blanket shielding the guitars natural vibrations. Ive given a good amount of time comparing fralins to lolars and fender CS pickups. My favorites seem to always be Lollars. (if Im lucky I'll pick up a completely original spec strat - those american vintage 57(not hotrod) strats are sweet looking. Maybe I'll strike it rich with a new job and go for a CS 69) haha. After pickups I think I definately should get a straight cab and load it up with scumback G12-30H 55hz or whatever theyre called. I havent heard a single negative comment on them across the board. In the mean time I should probably update my really old fender cables for some new curlys. I've also got to get new means of recording - comp crashed and I lost a program an old friend gave. woooo long post.

You can hear some old clips of the amp when I got it back in Feb at www.soundclick.com/robbasile

Ive also got a clip of my dads 66 fender bandmaster and 66 jazzmaster cranked. I love that tone, just straight into it and cranked. Funny thing is its loaded with mesa boogie tubes that are like 10 years old haha. Its on my myspace www.myspace.com/guitaristrobbasile

HARLEYIII · Post by **HARLEYIII** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:32 am

"F#CK 'YO EL-34'S!"

I use pedals in front of my amps (CMATMODS Brownie mixed with a 83 ProCo Rat). They take pedals WAY better with the 6550's than they did when the EL34's were in em. I'm fixin to try kt88's

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:10 am

Rob, I'd just have your A. Standard body 'plugged' and screwed for a vintage style bridge. Then I'd get a 7 1/4 radiused 'round lam' maple fretboard neck like Hendrix's. My Musikraft neck on my white strat is exactly accurate. You could even get a new set of pu's going wth this direction and come out spending less than buying a new guitar. Around $700 should get you there. The A. Standards are Alder (best to me for strats, Hendrix's were), and you already have alot of 'vibe' and playing time on her, just make it the way you want it.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:55 pm

I saw that post from harley and had a nice big LOL.

Im not sure I want to plug up the 2 point trem in the strat. I think I might leave her just as is except the pickups. I still have my musikraft parts to assemble my next strat. Unfortunately I didnt know what I was doing and got a 10-12 compound radius. For the time being, I might put in the old american standard pickups when i get new ones, and I have an old cheap 6 point vintage japanese trem from when I used to have one of those 68' japanese reissues.

A part of me really just wants to start fresh though with a whole vintage spec vibe from head to toe. Besides I have to get too much damn fret work done as it is, I need another couple of guitars to lower the wear!

It really blows my mind that jimi never had fret issues on the black or white strat considering they got played a shitload in their two years with him. It might be due to the fact that he owned so many damn strats behind the scenes that he would noodle on and then brought out the big dogs when it was time to do business.

I wonder what jimi's attack was like. My left hand frets somewhat lightly but ive been experimenting with that. Ive got a pretty light touch. I wonder if he was truly using 9's and had a light touch then maybe the frets would last longer? I duno.

At the end of the day no matter what he was doing, I still like 10's tuned a half step down the best. Best combination of tone and tension IMO.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:40 pm

I agree, 10's are best for overall tone and tension, when tuning down a half step.

I agree also, that 9 guage strings (pure nickel) wear frets less than bigger guages. Still, Hendrix only played those 2 guitars for 2 yrs.

Rob, I think those Japanese '68's were REAL good. They had more era correct necks than the CS '69's. If the body had been alder as opposed to the ash (clear) or basswood (white or sunburst), then it would have been near perfect,weak pick ups and all.

Did you get that '68 at Reliable Music in Charlotte ?

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:30 pm

na man It was my first strat I had way back when I was a kid. Got it at a sam ash up in new jersey. I was probably around 12. Had it for a long time and then actually had a short lived EVH phase. Like a jackass I put a floyd rose with a locking nut on and a hot mini bucker in the bridge. Sanded the body down to wood and spray painted it yellow. It sucked so I traded it for some peavy tele knockoff when I was a freshman in highschool I think it was by then. Haha what a shmuck I was!