sort've a new philosophy

[basile865]

Its kind of funny how much effort is spent in hunting down a few split seconds of sounds hendrix made. I think maybe why he was so great was that he was constantly creating no matter what it was. Youre bound to put out some stuff that really gives you goosebumps or hits your ear in a good way when youre always creating creating creating.

Too many times I get so built up by thinking man he was so great and this stuff I'm putting together is lacking the soul and power he put forth so it stifles my growth almost. Maybe we should just try to just always create new stuff and you'd be bound to find yourself and your own thing.

I've spent too much time talking about him and emulating something he may have captured one night, but probably couldnt quite recreate again on any given night.

He just came in with blazing speed and was always creating creating creating no matter what vibe or what gear or getting caught up in just how it might be recieved. Thats why he's been talked about for so long since his death, he wasnt looking left and right, he was just looking "straight ahead." We've all got a good idea on what he was doing and thats enough to take and move on. Atleast this is where I'm getting at. Of course if new significant findings about his gear came about I'd love to know! haha.

[mayrandp]

Youre bound to put out some stuff that really gives you goosebumps or hits your ear in a good way when youre always creating creating creating.

Too many times I get so built up by thinking man he was so great and this stuff I'm putting together is lacking the soul and power he put forth so it stifles my growth almost. Maybe we should just try to just always create new stuff and you'd be bound to find yourself and your own thing.

I've spent too much time talking about him and emulating something he may have captured one night, but probably couldnt quite recreate again on any given night.

Great attitude! What you are describing is what some people call 'fear of ghosts', being overwhelmed by the great masters. "It's great to sit on the shoulder of giants, but don't let the giants sit on your shoulder! There's no room for their legs to dangle." Free Play, p.136. Anybody interested in creativity should read that book.

[Tone Slinger]

Great topic ! This is my take,

When I was younger (around 12-28 I'd say) I had alot of fear of not being as good as the 'BIG' ones. In those past yrs of my life, I still had hopes and ambitions of 'Stardom'. I wanted to be a known musician. At one point, I was a TOTAL shred type dude, who was always in fear of the guy with more technical abilities. This didnt last long. My inner vibe just wasnt with that. I craved more groove than that.

I was never scared of 'cutting heads' with any of the 'greats', as far as being a interesting soloist. We learned from them, and not to sound egoed out or anything, we REFINED much of what they did.


The big thing that scared me then and now, is the ORIGINALITY/STYLE thing. The greats were the cornerstones to all styles that have come after them. It is all but impossible to compete with that. "How do you become as original as some of the greats"? An example of this would be the last 20 yrs or so of Pink Floyd. Gilmour gets his ass handed to him by that second guitarist they have. But that doesnt matter, cause Gilmour has the known style, with the great songs, ya know.

I mean, its easy to do something that doesnt sound good in order to be 'unique' or original, but if you like playing rock, this becomes very hard to become identifiable. One good thing though, I feel that anyone nowadays, who has catchy tunes, who is a bad assed soloist, will be 'unique'. It seems you only have straight blues dudes, Jazz cats or Heavy metal types who solo. In the 70's you had guy's that had more elements of the above styles all in one style. I'm not talking these modern 'Dream Theatre' guy's. Even when they are trying to play blues, it comes off cold and technical sounding. They can get at metal though.

C.C DeVille, of all people, had a great bit of advice on this. He said something like, "You gotta like your originals. Its YOUR style, stand behind it and dont pay attention to the critisism that will always be around. Maybe your style isnt like what you invisioned it to be when you were younger and thinking about the future. Its all you got though, might as well embrace it .

[frenchie]

Great topic ! This is my take,

When I was younger (around 12-28 I'd say) I had alot of fear of not being as good as the 'BIG' ones. In those past yrs of my life, I still had hopes and ambitions of 'Stardom'. I wanted to be a known musician. At one point, I was a TOTAL shred type dude, who was always in fear of the guy with more technical abilities. This didnt last long. My inner vibe just wasnt with that. I craved more groove than that.

I was never scared of 'cutting heads' with any of the 'greats', as far as being a interesting soloist. We learned from them, and not to sound egoed out or anything, we REFINED much of what they did.


The big thing that scared me then and now, is the ORIGINALITY/STYLE thing. The greats were the cornerstones to all styles that have come after them. It is all but impossible to compete with that. "How do you become as original as some of the greats"? An example of this would be the last 20 yrs or so of Pink Floyd. Gilmour gets his ass handed to him by that second guitarist they have. But that doesnt matter, cause Gilmour has the known style, with the great songs, ya know.

I mean, its easy to do something that doesnt sound good in order to be 'unique' or original, but if you like playing rock, this becomes very hard to become identifiable. One good thing though, I feel that anyone nowadays, who has catchy tunes, who is a bad assed soloist, will be 'unique'. It seems you only have straight blues dudes, Jazz cats or Heavy metal types who solo. In the 70's you had guy's that had more elements of the above styles all in one style. I'm not talking these modern 'Dream Theatre' guy's. Even when they are trying to play blues, it comes off cold and technical sounding. They can get at metal though.

C.C DeVille, of all people, had a great bit of advice on this. He said something like, "You gotta like your originals. Its YOUR style, stand behind it and dont pay attention to the critisism that will always be around. Maybe your style isnt like what you invisioned it to be when you were younger and thinking about the future. Its all you got though, might as well embrace it .

+1000
except i never in my life gave a fuck about reaching over the top technical skills ...for my turn i just compose what comes to my mind even if it is stupidly simple , and if i have something technical in my mind at one moment , i work it till i play the thing perfectly ....for me technique is a tool not an aim ....

[basile865]

Im glad the post was recieved so well guys.

I've been wanting to write music so much lately its rediculous. I have one more day of finals until I graduate college and I've been pent up at my girlfriends place for the past few weeks without any amps, just my strat and acoustic. I sort've look at music like food and you want to have all the elements thrown in there. Now I'm really a blues guy but theres so many different blues styles and cool stuff. I just want to own a million instruments and play and write and play and write create create create

Its sort've like every instrument has its own magic that will bring something out of you that you wouldn't expect. I think again, its all about getting your hands on as many instruments and sounds as you can and just always create no matter what. Dont go in with an agenda or what you expect to create because you have no control really over whats going to come out it just happens.

[Tone Slinger]

I agree with you guy's. When a total shred dude (Mr. Batio for ex.) plays one of his very worked out ,precise technical pieces, it makes the part of the listeners brain work that is the same as one uses for logic and math. On the other hand, Hendrix or EVH, no matter how fast or technical they may play, affects the part of the brain that brings pleasure and emotion. That is a BIG difference.

The 'On the spot' improvisation is another thing I agree with. Whether its a banjo, harmonica or mandolin,etc. true expression will emerge when one lets it 'flow'.

I definatly have spent alot of time, both playing and thinking/playing (I hear what is inside my mind,musically that is) about using different musical colors (modes) so to speak, WITHOUT losing that groove and rhythm, more earthy sound. I believe blues 'feel' is always where the most primal feel' is, as far as human perception goes (I dont know about other species). I cant stand the old 1-4-5 type blues progressions. I get bored with that 'throw back' blues stuff that Stevie made popular again. That stuff needs to be 'folded' back into another style to not sound 'old'. I DO like to fuse that feel (alot of bends and flatted fifths)with other vibes, like more eastern phrygian, or diminished type ideas.

[basile865]

I couldn't agree more man. Great way of putting the speed stuff and blues stuff. Speed stuff hits you in the brain, blues and soul hits you in the heart. I really like that.

Also total free expression and improv really does seem best when you play a different instrument or something new to you.

Sometimes I really dig the old school blues sound especially when its coming from someone whos got a presence about them like muddy waters. The technique is almost completely lacking in some situations but just theres something about it that I can dig so much. He comes across as a man whos been hardened by life and you just believe him when he's speaking and singing to you.

But yea the typical blues pattern can get old at times, just depends on my mood. Sometimes I just want to cruise around and listen to some real solid old school blues. But that was what was great about hendrix, he took that under his wing and then added his own soul to it.

I think the hardest part is being able to communicate what you're personally feeling through your notes and bends. It can sound bluesy and stuff but to really make someone FEEL it is what seperates the good players from the great players.

I recentley, just for shits and giggles, looked at some youtube videos of kenny wayne shepherd and jonny lang. Yes they are good players but I dont buy them for a second. Jonnys up there making all these faces and almost being sort've over into it and its just not really believable. I know he's talented its just sometimes fake seeming. I also dont want to pull the card though that says oh a young white guy cant play the blues it has to be an old black guy. I dont really believe that, it just takes someone who has that magic. Its kind of funny watching those two, as well as john mayer and then go watch derek trucks whos stands still and makes them look little boys.

If you've ever watched that video of the new guitar gods according to rolling stone, it has john mayer, john fruciante, and derek trucks. Each of them take a solo on their little blues jam but its funny to watch because when its finally dereks turn to solo after them, they both turn and watch his every move like total amatures who are too blinded by their success in pop music and then they get schooled by derek, a guy who will never make it on MTV or VH1 or any kind of popular/mainstream television. Just my opinion.

[Tone Slinger]

Well put. Mayer isnt much of a soloist. He has no tonal variation whatsoever. He is fluent,but in a boring 'go nowhere' sorta way. Frusciante,imo, played pretty well on "Mother's Milk" and Blood Sugar Sex Magic", but has been pretty forgettable since. Even then though, Frusciante was never a 'out front' soloist so to speak. I think he may well be 'gay' in more ways than one . Trucks IS a great soloist. His style isnt my favorite, but after hearing him pull off a bad assed improv solo that sounded in a way like John Coltrane, I knew he had it.

[45auto]

so many great points. you say your mainly a "blues" guy, i was just watching hd vids this morning & Clapton was on there, & i just got the same old white guy going through the motions vibe. i respect him for his many years of work, but i think there's just no faking that kind of "charisma" thing from a guy really emoting in a performance. i have wondered in the past if a guy like BB King might not truly have the blues anymore like he USED to. he has lots of money now, not suffering so much. i dunno. i'm rambling, but i'm just saying you really have to put your heart & soul into it, really express each note/moment. be in the moment. anybody can see when your just cranking out the toon without a real personal drive. there's plenty of technicians out there sweep picking & arpeggiating & such, but i had an old friend who always reminded me to just make a single note really sing.

[yngwie308]

Fortunately the single note players and the simple yet complex blues structure allows those of us so inclined to play and emote as much as any sweep picking, arpeggioed fast stuff. I can't really play that style myself too well, I enjoy hearing it played well, but takes too much practice .
Everybody gets tired of doing what they do, but I think blues stays with you always and you can never forget the emotions and feelings connected with the music, no matter how many times you have played it or how affluent you have become.
yngwie308

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, I agree. Alot of the blues stuff is based around bending the 3 unwound strings. Those licks and phrases become very addictive, as they feel REAL good under your fingers (especially with a 7 1/4 radius).

I think that alot of players (like the aforementioned Clapton) can still play 'genuinely' in the right place, but due to the overly large crowds they play to, the vibe and intamacy gets lost. They are sorta 'performing playing'.

But, Hendrix played some VERY soulful blues at Woodstock (the instrumental solo in A minor) and there were still probably a 100,000 people there so it can still be done (sharing of intimate feelings that is).

[basile865]

I was talking to Todd Smallie, the bass player for the Derek Trucks Band once. He was super nice. I was asking him how he keeps it together in front of so many people. He says he just doesn't pay attention to that. If you get worried about all the people up there, then you're screwed so just dont focus on it. I guess its just something you get used to.

[monkface]

I often think that as far as rock guitar, the vocabulary is pretty well played out, if not plain dead. The choices i see are to either keep rehashing the same licks that have been played for over 40 years, and doing them well and with a groove and "feel" and "soul" sure, but the same old stuff really, or to innovate so much as to play so outside and bizarre that no one wants to listen to it at all! This is probably a bit of a controversial statement, and one that is a bit off topic for this forum, but still i wonder what some of you guys think about this. I no way mean to imply that everyone sucks or is boring or un-original in all their playing, but I sometimes hear people saying that they can't wait for the next young so and so that will take it all to the next level, but realistically, that level may not even exist. Perhaps alternate tunings and different rhythms like sonic youth or something, but again who hear listens to sonic youth (besides me!) But even then they get into familiar patterns much of the time. They are more about being an "art band" more than guitar heroes anyway! But i digress...(don't you hate when people say that?!) I'm curious as to what others think.

[Freedom]

Whats the motive to grab a guitar and try to learn how to play it? If you don't do it for the chicks, the money or the glory then it must be something else, something deeper...its the need to express yourself with this instrument, make it your voice, play the music you listen in your head, music which describes your psychosynthesis and so forth...and thats way too personal...right?

Now, since every person is unique all we could do is just take some time and try to listen to ourselves, you know, the little "radio" that always plays inside our heads but we don't and can't listen to it all the time because we are not focused enough, cause our influences from other musicians/music are way to strong and so forth...if we could do that all the time then every musician would be a different music gerne...

So monkface, i believe the prob its not the limits of both music and sound cause honestly i thing there are no limits at all...

Its all about making your own, personal, honest music which is just you ...influences(=pieces of music you've loved and adapted because they express you) are not a bad thing at all as long as you take them to another level and make them personal and marry them with your things to make something its you eventually...

And i believe Hendrix did this at a great degree and maybe thats why his music is so unique anyway...

[mayrandp]

I think that the best music/art is when the artist is being true to himself by following his muse fearlessly. Someone who doesn't try to follow trends or force himself to be original. I think that great musicians don't ask themselves question like 'Am I hip enough?', 'Has this been played before?', they just fucking play! When somebody is trying too hard to do something original, it usually sounds forced and un-natural. Why? Because they're not being true to themselves. I prefer to hear someone who may not play the most original stuff but who's feeling and meaning what she/he's playing.

I can't speak for him but I've always felt that VH didn't forced himself to be original. He just played what he heard in his head or what felt good and it kinda happened it was something different. I think it's as simple as that.

Then, you can take something that's been done before and just make it your own. I think that the early Clapton stuff where he's playing the blues his way with a sound that was totally unique at the time is a good example of that. He was being original not by doing something totally new but by being at the origin of a different way to play the blues: his way.

I personally don't think that all has been said regarding rock guitar. When we'll expect it the less, someone's going to come up with something that nobody has thought of.

EDIT: Well said Freedom! Saw your post just after I wrote mine.