Hendrix and 6l6 or 6ca7 ?

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:12 pm

I always wondered back in the day, why alot of "Electric Ladyland" sounded SO clean and stratty. It was Jimi's use of a Fender combo I hear. Either a 4/10 bassman or a Deluxe reverb. Regardless of kt66's and Marshalls or Sound City's, Jimi got that great majestic combination of strat and Fender amp type clean all over Electric Ladyland. This leads me to thinking why havent lots of Hendrix fans put 6ca7 tubes (essentially a 6l6 with the el-34 pin lay out and operational voltage) in thier super leads (essentially a Fender 1959 bassman circuit) ? I mean, Hendrix did get his cleans a bit 'cleaner' with the 6550, but almost to a fault. The 6ca7 would have been great in his amps.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:45 pm

You have proof that he used 6550? No I didn't think so.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:55 am

haha ouch

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:56 am

Do you have proof that he didnt use 6550 ?

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:10 am

I think that anybody who has played or heard a cranked up el-34 equipped Marshall (ex. most of Hendrix's '68 shows) know that the nature of those tubes is to distort and 'brown out'. The highs are subdued alot at these volumes and the bottom end gets a bit mushy. The Winterland '68 concerts gives a great example of this.

On the other hand, all of the spring of '69 - 'sept of '70 concerts that I've heard, have a tone that is TOTALLY different from el-34.

A brand new set of el-34's played at a lower to moderate volume can retain a little bit of the clean tone I'm talking about, but cranked up for a hour or so, and they totally lose that pristine tonal quality I'm talking about, even playing at lower volume the next day, you notice your tubes have lost that clarity. They just arent very efficient, which is great for guy's wanting a more brown and furry type of 'classic' distorted tone.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:04 pm

I'd love to try them one day when money's a little easier to come by haha. But I fully agree that its a possibility. Tone Slinger one day when we get some time you and I need to hang out and talk tone in person with our gear.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:19 pm

That would be great. You cant beat being able to trade idea's and the whole "Let me put on this old track for you to hear" thing.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:25 am

you know I sat down today for an hour in front of my amps and just played and listened to everything and messed with knobs, just had a healthy experimentation session you know, and it really seems like my dads 66 bandmaster really has the best voice and well roundedness for the strat. I believe it runs on 6L6's and I was thinking, if only this thing was 100 watts It'd be perfect. If a 6ca7 was popular and accessible back then, and being that jimi was into and familiar with 6L6 sounds, I'd say that might be a better alternative to a 6550.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:58 am

Yea Jimi probably stole the idea from Eddie Van Halen....

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:49 pm

why post if you've got nothing but negative crap to say? honestly

Some people here are into experimentation and finding out that hey, a certain tube that was available back then could be a possible alternative to the EL34 for some hendrix sounds. I for one didn't know about the 6ca7 being much like a 6L6 but usable in an EL34 application and I think its a real interesting idea.

This forum is about forging ahead on tone quests man, not shooting people down.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:57 pm

I agree, This forum has a great ability to move forward with new idea's, and its great that we get young 'new blood' involved here that has interest in tones beyond what is 'hot' at the moment.Basile865 is one such person.

908ssp · Post by **908ssp** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:22 pm

It is one thing to suggest that you could or do get a great sound with a 6AC7. That would be cool I use them too. It is another altogether to justify your using them by some fantasy talk of Jimi Hendrix using them. Use your own ears you don't have to justify using anything because some hero used it.

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:44 pm

I see your point and agree with it for sure 908. But to be honest, yes the fact that it was a possible choice for hendrix to use on the band of gypsies sound makes it appealing to me.

Am I the kid who buys a white strat, plugs in the digitech jimi hendrix pedal into a marshall valvestate halfstack and posts youtube videos of myself playing purple haze? No.

Im just hunting the specific sound of the band of gypsies concert, or atleast trying to get in the ballpark because that strat sound was highly appealing to me and my personal tastes. The closer I get the more satisfied I'd be with my own tone for my own songs. I also hear other strat sounds of people who aren't famous or guitar "gods" yet they get close to the sound I'm shooting for. I search down for what their rig consists of as well.

To me, the idea of a fenderish sounding tube but with marshall power and overdrive is the ideal place to be. Every guitarist goes through it - my fender tube amp sounds great clean but so so overdriven, my marshall sounds so so clean but great overdriven. Seems like the ability to fall in the middle tonally with a tube like the 6ca7 would be something hendrix would consider as well as myself.

The thing about hendrix is this: Cranking marshall stacks to 10 with a fuzz face and standing on top of the world banging out insane blues licks and being a great showman is a lot of fun to see, great entertainment. BUT when you get past the games, especially on the band of gypsies where he wasn't being a clown, his sound really spoke to me.

The beauty of having a sound thats fat and rich with a hint of overdrive, where the G string sounds like its 20 gauges bigger than it actually is, THATS what I want. The crazy sustain and super gain is easily attainable. But that fat wood sound, its the purest thing I ever heard.

ToneBone · Post by **ToneBone** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:52 pm

I take exception to the comment about Hendrix being a clown. I never saw him weaing a red nose or Bozo wig...

basile865 · Post by **basile865** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:51 pm

I didn't mean like a typical clown, I meant it in a different way. Sometimes when great players basically know they're "the shit" they get up there and play, having the idea that all eyes are on them and they're amazing and thats on the top of their mind. In this sense, you're doing all the tricks, playing with teeth and behind your back and behind your head etc (or in this day and age finger tapping or making squeals and fast metal runs), and whats really going on is you're playing to get a rise out of the people, trying to impress them with "clown" tricks. Thats completely fine, its fun to mess around and have a good time. But as a guitarist, I'm not after his showmanship.

A lot of that was his earlier days where he was just trying to make a name for himself. I get that, a lot of artists sometimes need to be a little crazy so people remember you. You have to break through some how.

BUT, then there are the other times. This is when a guitarist really tunes out the audience all together, and goes to his own place, and the race is between him and himself. You're basically reaching for the stars in your mind. That's what was happening in the BOG concert. Aside from great tone and playing, Jimi kept his "clowning" to a minimum if any at all. He barely even moved from where he was standing. He was tuned in that night, and forgot about his surroundings, and all eyes being on him. It wasn't about impressing the audience, it was a race between him and his ability. Thats when the shit gets amazing, to me anyway.

I think its hard to tune out an audience, it really affects your playing. But it would seem like after doing it so much, the magic of being able to tune them out, go to your special place, and just rip your soul out on the guitar would be easier to do. Its fun to do all that clowning for kids who don't know much about guitar - which is a large portion of an audience. But what really impresses me is deep soulful playing where they ignore you and do their own thing.

Other bands like aerosmith thrive off the engergy they get back from the audience. Thats a different side to rock and roll which is cool in its own way, but I like watching a real master of his/her craft do their own thing.