BOG fuzz question

[swankmotee]

i didn't see two fuzz in the chain of the BOG show. Really ? but what i heard is that the axis fuzz is into a fuzz face enclosure.

The red fuzzface with the white knobs was a hybrid (Si in the first stage and Ge in the second) that Mayer had tweaked for Jimi which later became the basis for the Axis pedal. He only had that FF with the wah,Octavia,and Univibe in the chain as has been proven by all the pictures of that show. I've modded my own vintage FF with the same hybrid arrangement and it definitely gets the BOG sound.

hey man, post a clip of that fuzz if you can.

thanks

Sure will and like I said in the other post I'm just waiting on the Dangerousguitar.com folks to get it compiled and edited and will post something the minute I get my hands on it.

[Roe]

but the axis fuzz is a very different circuit from the FF. substituting transistors would not get the axis sound as far as I can see. mayer claims that the axis circuit was used first time on Axis and later on BoG. but the circuit appears to have been tweaked a little.

[peter25]

This site explains some variants of the FF circuitry.

http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/f ... fffram.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Xplorer]

thanks for the informations !
i'll try it. do you have some pictures ?
i've made a fuzz that does different combinations, between 12 transistors that i can swap, as well as the capacitors. ( but the bias control doesn't seem to work )
i may have a hot germanium ac128 in this kind of gain.
i bet that you had the chance to compare your fuzz with a kr gypsy fuzz , right ?
these controled musical feedbacks, in the end of machine gun are damned good, maybe the first thing that blew my mind when i first heard hendrix when i was twelve.
Funny thing, a few days ago, i was discussing with an old french amp builder, ( shade , garen, stimmer ) who did pickups and amps in the past, for les paul, django reinhardt. He didn't only invent the electric guitar pickups, but also the first fuzz ! by accident, before any fuzz face. he told me that he's gonna show me a clone he did of the model they did in that time, germanium fuzz, when the transistors appeared. it was a very interesting conversation. And he told me that he would let me visit a museum in france, of the amplification pioneers, where there's also one of the first jimi hendrix guitar. i can't wait !

[louis]

I've had a KR *Gypsy fuzz.....also a KR *The Fuzz and I kept the 70's Fulltone for Bog.


I also had a Axis fuzz that almost injured my eardrum because it was so ice picking ,I hated it ,only good on low volumes for clean tones.


I was always amazed on how a fuzz circuit was simple back then with only a few components and today
filled with a ton of parts to get sometimes not even close to what it was!

Keep it simple !

And dont forget that he was plugged in 3 stacks loaded with 24 G12H Pre Rolas trough a vintage Univibe which changed the sound quite a bit even if the Vibe was on the cancel mode and also his strat was upside down so the bridge pickup was catching a more bassy sound than if it was stringed the right way.

Also his feeling ,hearth ,soul,huge fingers was part of the game , on Machine gun beginning ,he was playing with his thumb which again does'nt sound the same ,very early bluesy roots kind of playing ,you can almost hear a Citar sound on MahineGun
just by the way he hits the small strings with his thumb.

This quest will never end !


Louis

[swankmotee]

but the axis fuzz is a very different circuit from the FF. substituting transistors would not get the axis sound as far as I can see. mayer claims that the axis circuit was used first time on Axis and later on BoG. but the circuit appears to have been tweaked a little.

Well, no one really knows for sure "what" was under the hood of the red face now do we?!LOL! I certainly don't know and have spent some quality time with all of Mayers later designs and the Axis never got the sound my old ears associated with the red face from all the years listening and tuning old FF's. All I can tell you is that this hybrid version sounds right and gets the amount of fuzz and gain that I have always been striving to get closer to the original tones off the recordings. One thing I can say and any pedal tweaker will too is that it's a hit or miss job trying to get that exact tone and response and I have (just like the rest of you probably) been trying all my life to get back to that! I too have a breadboard FF circuit with all the resistor values in trimpot form that I've swapped out a myriad of both Si and Ge trannies on trying to get just the right balance of values to get to the grail and it has taken a very long time to work out exactly what works and what doesn't but it was a journey worth doing once I got it right. I've also spent a lot of time talking with other pedal builder's like R.G. Keen,Mayer,Dave Fox,George Tripps,Paul Cochrane,Charlie Lyon,Scotty,ect getting their take on the subject too. Tinkering has always been frustrating for me because I had only one objective in mind which was getting the red face tone which seemed to be unobtainable but now I'm really relieved to have finally gotten it right. I'll post up the audio asap when it becomes available so you guys can judge for yourself.

[Xplorer]

it's great that in the end you found a simple fuzz that does it, that's really cool.
yes, and pictures of this fuzz if possible, to see the other values of your circuit, if you're ok with that ? that would be very interesting.
Indeed, as some others thought too, it's really possible that mayer did a simple silicon/germanium fuzz, directly on an original fuzz face, still into its original face box , why not ? that makes sens, and as long as it sounds the way you're looking for, it's just perfect. yeah, i 'd really want to see it and try do do it too with your permission.
i'm also really looking for this tone.

[Xplorer]

wow, all my bc108c are above 700 hfe ... damn. got an ac128 at 165 hfe.
are they pnp ? npn ? do you mod something on the ( simple arbiter fuzz face circuit like one of these ? http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) circuit to accept the hybrid version ? out of the transistors, what would be important for your fuzz ? positive/negative ground wiring ?

[swankmotee]

it's great that in the end you found a simple fuzz that does it, that's really cool.
yes, and pictures of this fuzz if possible, to see the other values of your circuit, if you're ok with that ? that would be very interesting.
Indeed, as some others thought too, it's really possible that mayer did a simple silicon/germanium fuzz, directly on an original fuzz face, still into its original face box , why not ? that makes sens, and as long as it sounds the way you're looking for, it's just perfect. yeah, i 'd really want to see it and try do do it too with your permission.
i'm also really looking for this tone.

This is what I truly believe since building this paticular hybrid on a stock FF circuit. It makes sense since the tone is so close to the Hendrix version and all the characteristics are right on the money. I'll be glad to post some pics and let you guys see it because there is no mystery here,just a lot of trial and error work.

[swankmotee]

wow, all my bc108c are above 700 hfe ... damn. got an ac128 at 165 hfe.
are they pnp ? npn ? do you mod something on the ( simple arbiter fuzz face circuit like one of these ? http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/fuzzface.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) circuit to accept the hybrid version ? out of the transistors, what would be important for your fuzz ? positive/negative ground wiring ?

I have a pile of original TKE 108c's and there are a lot of them that do read high in the above 500 hfe range and these do not sound good for the stock FF. They will splatt and sputter because there is too much gain to allow for definition of the original source voltage so it ends up sounding a lot like the tones Jimi got during the latter 70' period. AC 128's are usually around the lower 80's to 200 hfe range which is why they make a better fuzz stage because they don't over distort. Having a lower hfe Si in the first stage just cleans up the noise floor and allows for more clarity of the original signal to pass when flooring the fuzz knob. I also have an original AC128 version that is really great at capturing those early Hendrix tones where he used the dual Ge cans in his FF's. It's a bit noisier but because the gains on the cans are 140/150 it isn't unmanageable and allows for a lot of clarity when maxed out and as you turn down. Two AC128's that are in this hfe range and matched tonally are a thing of beauty but once again it is up to your ear and these paticular two were matched for me back in the 80's by none other than Roger Mayer himself.

[BLOOZE]

Do you have a pic of your original fuzz face with ac128.
(or do you mean original ac128 in your clone)
I have never seen an original fuzz face with ac128 s.
I have only seen original s with nkt275.

I personally like nkt275 s or black glass oc44 s
(I collect all different transistors for many years)





if I would use an ac128 I would use one that looks like,
[img


not those (they are orig ac128too)
[img]


I think that late Hendrix was just a hybrid fuzz too.

[Xplorer]

i think i remember that roger mayer said he never used an nkt275, in this period. something like that.

[swankmotee]

Here are some pics of first the BOG hybrid Fuzzface and second the Ge AC128 version.....






As you can see inside "Venus",the 1st stage is a Si TI 2N2907A into a Ge (no #) Newmarket with a variable 10K pot for adjusting the bias of stage 2. The FF shell had been butchered long agao by a couple of fools including Scotty from Pro Analog so thats the reason for the case mounted 10K pot and felt tip markings inside!I found the unmarked Newmarket trannies at a Hamfest long ago and scored quite a few that I use in different fuzzes and they sound really stellar like great NKT275's when matched up well. The second FF is loaded with the AC128's that Mayer had sent me many moons ago and I still have quite a few others from the same batch. I installed sockets jsut so I wouldn't have to keep hitting those fragile traces with a solder iron which eventually ruins them.

[swankmotee]

Do you have a pic of your original fuzz face with ac128.
(or do you mean original ac128 in your clone)
I have never seen an original fuzz face with ac128 s.
I have only seen original s with nkt275.

I personally like nkt275 s or black glass oc44 s
(I collect all different transistors for many years)





if I would use an ac128 I would use one that looks like,



not those (they are orig ac128too)



I think that late Hendrix was just a hybrid fuzz too.

NICE STASH!

[BLOOZE]

NICE STASH! [/quote]



Thank you
Would love to hear clips of “Venus“