Which to Build for JMH - The Dilemma

[Xplorer]

Me too, a nice new SM57 arrived in my Christmas pressies so I am browsing for the best (value for money) interface to feed into my Mac (starting with garageband) M-audio looks ideal............oops thread hack

take a look at presonus stuffs ... can't complain of it. cheap and quality, allways working. something with 10 inputs is cool.
you could find a presonus firepod for very cheap ,on eBay, it's discontinued, and replaced by improved versions, but still working since about 10 years.
a friend of mine had problems with m-audio sound card. complicate. and she had to return it.

i don't have an sm57, maybe one day, it's a classic, and you can also mod it to the early better sounding sm57 specs ( plenty of infos on the web ) . but i'm so glad i did something crazy, buying some ribbon mics, SE R1, fantastic for the price, almost as good as some legend mics. in the beginning they were 1000 $ each ! and i got them for 300 euros both !

it captures tone so easyly, no need to try hard to place the mic, you just put it somewhere .... lol , and that's all !
it's the most natural sounding kind of mic, with a metal plate 1.8 micron thick !

and with two, you can do a blumlein stereo arrangement.

[Lefty Lou]

Me too, a nice new SM57 arrived in my Christmas pressies so I am browsing for the best (value for money) interface to feed into my Mac (starting with garageband) M-audio looks ideal............oops thread hack

I have the older Logic Pro 8.0 and it's a great DAW for any kind of recording. A salesman at GC referred me to the Audix brand of mics and recommended the Audix i5 as a better alternative to the SM57 for the money (it is). The audio interface I use is a PreSonus FP10 24-bit/96K Fire Wire. From an earlier experience with the Alesis iO Series of audio interfaces, I purchased an iO|26 and they are a complete waste of time, money, and effort, plus Alesis has absolutely no customer support whatsoever.[/qoute]

take a look at presonus stuffs ... can't complain of it. cheap and quality, allways working. something with 10 inputs is cool.
you could find a presonus firepod for very cheap ,on eBay, it's discontinued, and replaced by improved versions, but still working since about 10 years.
a friend of mine had problems with m-audio sound card. complicate. and she had to return it.

i don't have an sm57, maybe one day, it's a classic, and you can also mod it to the early better sounding sm57 specs ( plenty of infos on the web ) . but i'm so glad i did something crazy, buying some ribbon mics, SE R1, fantastic for the price, almost as good as some legend mics. in the beginning they were 1000 $ each ! and i got them for 300 euros both !

it captures tone so easyly, no need to try hard to place the mic, you just put it somewhere .... lol , and that's all !
it's the most natural sounding kind of mic, with a metal plate 1.8 micron thick !

and with two, you can do a blumlein stereo arrangement.

[Roe]

... This place needed some action! Perhaps I'll get a thread started when I start my '69 SL build very soon (package sent from Valvestorm yesterday).

I did some more experimenting last night, again with my 12-series clone, two different cabs (1935B and 1982B), Castledine Supra-Vibe, Dunlop Octavio and NKT275 Sunface. TBH, I came to the opposite conclusion: to my ears, the BOG setup is a fairly gainy amp set high, but with the fuzz set relatively low! I think Roe suggested the BOG spund was an Axis fuzz used as a clean boost, and that might very well be true. I've never tried an Axis fuzz, and perhaps "clean boost" isn't the right word, but you get the picture. A germanium fuzzface is definitely not the right fuzz for BOG, you need something brighter, tighter and gainier...but I don't think the fuzz is set all the way up or even close to all the way up. He gets so many shades of clean and semi-clean tones, some brighter than others with apparently the same gain level and pickup, so I feel certain that he's playing straight into the amp for many parts (no fuzz on). Also, when he uses the Octavio, a 45/100 set on 4 wouldn't sound right to my ears....not enough gain. And with an Octavio into a silicon fuzz with the fuzz set all the way up...it would just be a mess, yet on BOG it's always controlled.
The preamp of the Univibe plays a part too - it adds a certain bite/brittleness and helps beef up the sound when the guitar runs straight into the amp. It also helps with clean-up, so he gets a nice cutting tone even with no fuzz on.

...

Lots of speculation here, but until further notice, my money is on:

Amp: split cathode Super Leads, possibly with 6550s, set quite high (although a shared cathode type amp is certainly a possibility...still doubt the 45/100 though)
Fuzz: silicon fuzzface or Axis fuzz, output level fairly high but fuzz level relatively low, enough to make it sound fuzzy, but not enough to completely overload the amp and make it sound splattery
Univibe: preamp circuit adds a subtle bite and brittleness
Guitar: as we all know...very low output PUs

Feel free to disagree all you want. I reserve the right to change my opinion frequently and wildly.

Fortunately I will soon have the ability to make simple recordings and videos...nothing fancy, but better than built-in iPhone mic...

I've tried various fuzzes, preferring the axis set fairly clean (but not all the songs sound the same). The axis is brighter than most FFs and also has more output available

[Xplorer]

yes indeed, presonus, fp10 or firepod or some else. very good enough.

i'm currently building an axis fuzz, i'd love to see how it reacts with the 45/100 and SL. i like to set the fuzz at max, but i'm not using all the fuzz provided, i kinda cancel it with the strat volume, getting clean tones but still, it gives some tonal characteristics , and i can get wild sounds if i want by playing just with the strat vol : hence the endless notes etc.

..... Tell me, do you notice somethings on this sweet music ? ^^
between both. i only selected this same part of the song on each version.
i'm glad this subject was resurected, it made me discover some stuff i had never heard before ,i think, like this :

http://we.tl/JmLrdY2x7W" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Now what about the dilemma ? still a dilemma ? lol

Edit : i think i've got something ! maybe a possible tone comparison possible with another concert ... the royal albert hall !
i mean, these clips in the file above, from the first show. To me they sound a lot like this one, a red house cut, from the royal albert hall :

http://we.tl/YSmUaNsnIs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so, this would be a superlead then.

BUT, as you hear, even with the same post prod as for machine gun, who knows ..... it sounds nothing like machine gun, who knows ..... shades of tone. fuzz or not.

ok nobody replied but i'll tell you, i noticed ( we talked about it already i think, but there's a good example there ) that the post prod version is a half step lower than the rough live version. i think it may participate to the elusive tone.
also, on this burning desire cut, ,the post prod is half lenght of the live version, they cut half of it, too bad.

i think it was a superlead that night, sounding very close to the royal albert hall in the other clip.

[Lefty Lou]

You guys spend too much time philosiphizing about it and not enough time playing. When you get to a point where you can play and sound like Randy Hansen doing Hendrix (you've definitely arrived). By that time, your demeanor will be less "give a shit" mentality about (what was used on BOG or RAH?) because you'll be able to accomplish what Hendrix did w/o having to use the precise equipment he used. I'll guaranty that EVH didn't spend so much time and effort in acquiring the same exact equipment as Hendrix when he worked up Hendrix tunes, he made whatever he had to work for him personally.

[Xplorer]

That's a point of view ...
It takes a lifetime to learn to play what hendrix did this night anyway, if you're looking at copying bog exactly.
Well, this can be a part of the pleasure to play : looking at tones. so why not ?
Randy's playing is fantastic, yes. VH approach is cool too. I'm not them, i'm me ! lol. Learning a lot on jimi's rich approach about playing, while philosophing on his gears and tone. Archeology for the futur ( my own futur obviously lol ) .
This little cut of "burning desire", i love it ..... Very simple, and very clever at the same time. Playing along with it, learning it, practicing, observing the structure he used .... Wow, i like it even more.
That's philosophing about his tone and gears that brought me to practice this song, jimi's way, to later acquire some background into my own way to play.

[Lefty Lou]

That's a point of view ...
It takes a lifetime to learn to play what hendrix did this night anyway, if you're looking at copying bog exactly.
Well, this can be a part of the pleasure to play : looking at tones. so why not ?
Randy's playing is fantastic, yes. VH approach is cool too. I'm not them, i'm me ! lol. Learning a lot on jimi's rich approach about playing, while philosophing on his gears and tone. Archeology for the futur ( my own futur obviously lol ) .
This little cut of "burning desire", i love it ..... Very simple, and very clever at the same time. Playing along with it, learning it, practicing, observing the structure he used .... Wow, i like it even more.
That's philosophing about his tone and gears that brought me to practice this song, jimi's way, to later acquire some background into my own way to play.

Don't get me wrong, I used to be the same way about equipment until I realized that I was doing myself a great disservice by not playing (and/or) practicing, and obsessing over equipment instead. Alternatively, when someone obsesses over equipment they can equally spend a lifetime researching equipment and still not get any closer to applying those chops to "That" sound. Besides, what good does it do to play a partial song or only certain techniques, but be a wealth of knowledge about equipment? Answer, Nada. Face it, it's just an easy way to "cop out" on having a meaningful practice session.

[Xplorer]

You can't judge actualy, in my case. You don't know how long i play every days, improvising etc. And it looks nothing like my partial clips.
About gears i prefer "less is more". I have all i need, even if i'm building an axis fuzz for fun, been a year that i didn't build something or bought some gear.
I agree with you , i prefer practicing , playing, learning, than spending the whole time on gear talking. But sometimes my friend, i want to ! He he. And spend some time on metroamp.
But thanks to worry
You know, unlike Hendrix, i don't have a Roger Mayer to devote his life to my effects to my liking and invent some new ones, nor a Jim Marshall to build cool prototype amps for me, nor Eddie Kramer to record stuffs for me, not roadies, nor cool drummers and bassist to do the jam with me ( well, sometimes .. )
Ha ! So someone's got to do this.

[Strat78]

You can't judge actualy, in my case. You don't know how long i play every days, improvising etc. And it looks nothing like my partial clips.
About gears i prefer "less is more". I have all i need, even if i'm building an axis fuzz for fun, been a year that i didn't build something or bought some gear.
I agree with you , i prefer practicing , playing, learning, than spending the whole time on gear talking. But sometimes my friend, i want to ! He he. And spend some time on metroamp.
But thanks to worry
You know, unlike Hendrix, i don't have a Roger Mayer to devote his life to my effects to my liking and invent some new ones, nor a Jim Marshall to build cool prototype amps for me, nor Eddie Kramer to record stuffs for me, not roadies, nor cool drummers and bassist to do the jam with me ( well, sometimes .. )
Ha ! So someone's got to do this.

You don't have to justify a damn thing Xplorer, keep up the good work! It is members like you that keep Metro a vital community.

[shakti]

I agree with Xplorer...no disrespect to Lefty Lou, but I always yawn at people who, on a forum dedicated to discussing gear and tone, suggest spending less time obsessing over gear and tone on an internet forum.

It goes without saying that if you want to be a better player, you spend more time practicing, and less time on the internet. But to 99% of the people here, this is a hobby. It's recreational fun. And this is even a DIY forum. We are, by nature, the kind of people who will obsess over tiny details.

Plus, as Xplorer says....thanks to the legwork of people like George and this community, it's easier for other people to reap the benefits and find proper info on how to achieve this and that tone, the effects of this and that tweak etc.

Lastly, I have to say that I find myself playing much better when I get a tone that's "just right". When you feel the gear struggling against you - be it the bass farting out, the treble being to harsh...whatever it is...I tend to play less freely. Hendrix had his on and off nights too...Jan 1, 1970 was definitely an *on* night, and it coincides with some of his best tone.

[Xplorer]

Thanks guys, i appreciate. No disrespect taken from lefty lou anyway, allways a pleasure to discuss here with you guys.
i can understand the point of view of lefty lou, no problem.

anyway, i hope i may tell you some news about the axis fuzz into the 45/100 tonight or tomorrow, for some different bog attempts, if it may provide some tonal characteristics that may be right on, as i think it could be.
i did my first pcb etching test, successful, and i'm starting to see the advantage of etching pcbs .... very cool ...
i may build some great effects or even clone some i have, maybe my old electric mistress, why not, i have a reticon sad 1024 so ...

but the best test would be to do this bog test at live level. unfortunately i can't yet.

i learned so much and got so much inspiration thanks to George and this forum, really fantastic. And playing with a sound that play itself almost alone .... i just loooove this.

Randy Hansen really found his ( one of his ) "sound that plays alone", i think it's a very good example.
But sometimes it's true, we have to forget about all the gear stuffs, play with fantastic toys and make beautiful things.
I liked forgetting about gears and builds for a year or two, i'll go back to it and practice anytime i can.

[Lefty Lou]

Thanks guys, i appreciate. No disrespect taken from lefty lou anyway, allways a pleasure to discuss here with you guys.
i can understand the point of view of lefty lou, no problem.

There was never any disrespect intended, thanks.

anyway, i hope i may tell you some news about the axis fuzz into the 45/100 tonight or tomorrow, for some different bog attempts, if it may provide some tonal characteristics that may be right on, as i think it could be.
i did my first pcb etching test, successful, and i'm starting to see the advantage of etching pcbs .... very cool ...
i may build some great effects or even clone some i have, maybe my old electric mistress, why not, i have a reticon sad 1024 so ...

but the best test would be to do this bog test at live level. unfortunately i can't yet.

i learned so much and got so much inspiration thanks to George and this forum, really fantastic. And playing with a sound that play itself almost alone .... i just loooove this.

Randy Hansen really found his ( one of his ) "sound that plays alone", i think it's a very good example.

Not in understanding of your statement here. There are several videos of Randy Hansen playing outside at some lake resort casino in Washington that are absolutely great. In the vids it looks like he's using two heads and two Townshendesque 8 x 12" cabinets. Stone Free is one of my faves from these performances.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXzL4lCVLQ[/youtube]

But sometimes it's true, we have to forget about all the gear stuffs, play with fantastic toys and make beautiful things.
I liked forgetting about gears and builds for a year or two, i'll go back to it and practice anytime i can.

[yladrd61]

I was at that outdoor Randy Hansen show at the Clearwater Casino in Suquamish, Washington. He gets great sound out of those tall cabs. He blows my mind every time I see him play !!! I gave him a mint Blackburn I63 and told him to put it in V1 of his main '71 Super Lead. He liked it and still has it in there . That guy has Jimi in him !!!!

[yngwie308]

Sorry to say this again but having lived in London from 1966-73, the first time I lived there of twice basically the whole of Jimi's career, I think that he never used a Super Bass amp to my knowledge.
The salesman at Jim Marshall's shop who sold Jimi his first amps told me that Super Leads were all Hendrix used.
Back then people were not generally aware of the simple circuit change between Bass and Lead.
Bass players used Super Basses and lead players used Super Leads, some players like Paul Kossoff may have used Super Basses, but Hendrix always Super Leads, I haven't seen any evidence to support the other amp.
yngwie308