NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

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shakti
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NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:01 pm

No, it's not the new Dunlop mini "BOG" fuzzface...nor is it a West Coast mod fuzzface. Rather, something different altogether, and possibly cloned for the first time ever sicne 1967? Read on...please excuse the long and rambling post. Photos and clips will follow as soon as I can upload them.


This all started when I finally decided to try an Axis fuzz a few months back. Now, for all my Hendrix obsession, I have never really spent all that much time exploring his different fuzz tones. I got an Analog Man NKT275 Sunface way back in 2002 or 2003, and have been so hapy with it that until recently I never went looking for much else. I've owned a Fulltone 69 and 70, and tried a few others, but only the Sunface has stayed. If forced to choose, early (66-67) Jimi is probably my favourite Hendrix era, at least that's where I started. EL is my fave Hendrix *album*, but for me it all started with AYE. And another album I got early on in my Hendrix infatuation was the BBC Sessions CD on Rykodisc back in the early 90s.

The Sunface is perfect for most of the AYE tones and works quite well for BBC tones and EL tones too with some tweaking (it does have an input trimmer which allows it to work a little better with a wah, although that does of course affect the saturation of the fuzz full up).

Fast forward to earlier this fall, and I decided to finally try an Axis Fuzz. So many people had claimed it was the sound for BOG, Woodstock *and* the Axis album fuzz tones, and some have insisted it was the sound for the fall 67 BBC tones. I got a late 90s Roger Mayer Axis, and was altogether rather disappointed. I could hear some qualities that I liked: tighter, brighter, better on chords. All qualities that I could hear in those BBC tracks. And in a chain with lots of curly cords, Uni-Vibe preamp, daisy chained amps (like the actual BOG setup), it works fairly well for more of a mid-gain fuzz boost (which is what I believe the BOG fuzz to be). So with that kind of setup, it can get reasonably close to BOG...but only ballpark close. But ultimately, I think it's a good idea that's poorly executed. It just sounds thin, bright and harsh, and has none of the qualities that I expect from a good *fuzz*; woody, harmonically rich, flutey and sustaining. I simply do not accept that this is the same circuit/pedal/transistors that was used on the Axis album, or the BBC sessions (or BOG, for that matter), no matter what Roger Mayer the salesman says. Listen to the solo on Bold as Love, for instance: super warm, blooming, yet fuzzy and tight. It just "jumps" out in exactly the right way. The RM Axis by comparison sounds completely one-dimensional and undynamic, let alone much brighter and harsher.

I got talking with Stuart Castledine when I was ordering a drop-in wah PCB from him. I had intended to do that for ages, but there were always other priorities. I already have another fuzz of his, the Supa Mk I, which is a clone of an extremely rare prototype Marshall Supafuzz. He owns one of only two(?) known examples of the original. When I got that one a few years ago, my jaw dropped to the floor. It's a stunning fuzz, midway between a Mk I and Mk II Tonebender. It proved to me that Stu has a way with fuzz, that's for sure. I really can't recommend that fuzz enough, but I definitely like it best into a clean amp (the case with all Tonebenders IMO). I am digressing, but my point is that Castledine isn't just any old hack with a soldering gun. His wahs are very highly regarded, and his Supra-Vibe is an excellent Uni-Vibe replica including the preamp which can be used also in bypass.

Stu had noticed me posting about the Axis on TGP, and he shared my sentiments about the RM Axis. He then told me that the Axis, as well as Octavia/o, are very similar circuits that *both* were clearly copied from the uniqe preamp in the recording console at Olympic Studios. That console was apparently designed by a guy called Dick Swettenham who later went on to found a company called Helios. Now, this isn't really new info to a lot of people in the know, in fact, there was a guy on the forum who talked about it a little while back. But to me, I've never really delved deep into this before, and I've never built a pedal (only lots of amps) nor studied fuzz schematics. Stu told me he had built his own "Axis" fuzz using silicon transistors, but based on a schematic that is closer to the original Olympic console preamp than the one RM builds today, and to his ears it sounded much better than the current RM Axis. So I asked whether he would build me a clone to buy and he agreed. I also mentioned my love of those BBC sessions and that being just as much reason for me to search out a "better" Axis type fuzz. Stu then said he had speculated whether Roger Mayer may have used germanium transistors in his first Olympic-based fuzzes. After all, the Olympic console used germanium transistors, and at the time (67) that this fuzz first came into existence, silicon transistors were still considerably more expensive than germaniums. So Stu made up a prototype germanium based "true" Axis fuzz ("true" meaning it is closer to the Olympic preamp), which he thought really nailed those late 67 BBC session sounds.

I am talking about the two sessions recorded October 6 and December 15. Tracks like Drivin South, Catfish Blues, Little Miss Lover, Spanish Castle Magic, Day Tripper and Hear My Train A Comin'. I love, love, love those fuzz sounds!! Ripping, tight, screaming, blooming, flutey fuzz tones, that even work well with a wah! That feedback squeal at the end of Day Tripper has to be the single greatest squeal ever - it sounds like 10000 wild horses screaming!

So, this pedal is what we believe to be the original Axis fuzz pedal, one that Jimi started using in the fall of 67 and used on those BBC sessions, and probably on several Axis album tracks. Again, the current RM Axis sounds nothing like this and is a silicon based fuzz. We don't have anything to base our assumptions on other than sound, and the fact that this is a circuit that is much closer to the Olympic studio console preamps. So we decided to call it the Olympic Fuzz. Stu even used the original logo from Olympic Studios on the pedal!

Soooo...the pedal arrived today....more to follow... :rock:
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shakti
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:36 pm

Image

Here's what it looks like. That is the logo of the original Olympic Studios. Now, for the sound.

If a fuzzface is roaring, then this fuzz is SCREAMING! You can sort of hear that it is a close cousin of the Roger Mayer Axis that you can buy today, but the comparison ends there. The RM sounds like a Chinese toy by comparison. This has everything that I like about the Axis, but none of the drawbacks. It cleans up very well. It's a much more gradual clean-up than a fuzzface though, and it doesn't clean up to that very sparkling clean that a good germanium fuzzface does, but it just sounds spot on for those late 67 tones, both from the ABOL album, and not least the BBC sessions I mentioned above.
It's tight, yet unmistakably a fuzz. It screams, but it's not the least bit piercing. It has lots of sustain, is woody and blooms into amazing overtones, but it is a very different feel than a typical fuzzface. It has *lots* of output. And perhaps the best part: it sounds AMAZING with a wah! I don't mean it "works" with a wah. I mean it sounds absolutely over-the-top great; the wah really adds another dimension to the sound with this combination. And that is with a stock Vox V847, no buffer. Next up is to put in the Castledine board (which does have a buffer available, BTW) and pot.

I have recorded a 5 min video clip of me noodling through some of those BBC tunes to show the sounds, the clean-up characteristics and how it sounds with a wah, but can't upload it until I'm back home tomorrow. Stay tuned!
JTM45 RS OT, 1973 18W, JTM45/100, JTM50, JMP50 1986, JMP100 "West Coast", AC15, AC30, BF Super Reverb, Boogie Mk 1, Hiwatt CP103, DR103

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:08 pm

Managed to upload the video now:

Strat is a partscaster with a vintage '69 rosewood neck, MJT body, Callaham trem with Raw Vintage saddles and springs, Don Mare Josie/VaughnC pickups.
Amps is a JTM45/100 clone. Settings were presence 7, bass 0, mids 10, treble 7, vol one 7-8 (has Parkhead mod, i.e. 470R across the volume control which makes it a little fuller sounding at less than 10)
Cab is a 1970 Basketweave 1935B (T1511 Celestions, i.e. G12M 55Hz)
Wah is a stock Vox V847 with no buffer
Olympic Fuzz prototype with volume at 11:30, fuzz at 12:30-13

Recorded on iPhone via a cheap Fostex interface. The room is small and you don't really get any acoustics in there. Attenuated with Alex' Attenuator at -9dB, so it will probably sound even better at less attenuation.
Youtube does something funny with the sound, so it's more brittle in the recording than in real life. Not a great recording, but I think you get the point.

JTM45 RS OT, 1973 18W, JTM45/100, JTM50, JMP50 1986, JMP100 "West Coast", AC15, AC30, BF Super Reverb, Boogie Mk 1, Hiwatt CP103, DR103

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by Roe » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:53 pm

this new fuzz sounds good to me. Certainly, a great early hendrix tone (would like to try one).

I've owned two axis fuzzes and tried a third one. they oldest one (90s probably) sounded less than good, the newest ones sounds best (tc axis)
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by Xplorer » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:17 pm

very very good ! it definitely sounds BBC when you play Hendrix licks ! congrats !

i bet that it beats anything at sounding "catle made of sand", am i right ?

what germaniums in this one ?

your clip sounds pretty decent, even with an iPhone.

yeah, my axis fuzz clone , very accurate, doesn't sound Hendrix at all, i confirm.

my helios fuzz .... i don't remember how it sounded when i attempted to build what you have today, but i'd wish to do it again, oh yeah ...
Last edited by Xplorer on Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by neikeel » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:18 pm

That sounds like fun! Very nice early Hendrix vibe, my favourite tones (personally prefer over later BOG era).

Stu is a whizz at these things and a gentleman too!

I have recently built a Mk II clone with his help and guidance (he sent me a nice set of OC75s) so I must post some pics (I started thread on Marstran so I guess there).
http://forum.marstran.com/viewtopic.php ... 3968#p3968
Image

Wonder how to build one of these :?: :scratch:
Last edited by neikeel on Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:31 pm

Out of respect for Stu I won't post board shots, but I did spot at least one OC77 in there, and one which was definitely something else. It's a three transistor circuit.

Yeah, this pedal is a *lot* of fun! I hit it with a wah around the 2:45 mark and then again at the end...never heard a fuzz sound so great with a wah! The gainier sounds are a little harder to get a good recording of, but I must say I think the clean Catfish Blues sound at 2:00 is about as close as anyone can get. Will try to make some more recordings.
BTW, the first few licks are with the pedal off, straight into amp.

Castles Made of Sand, huh? Need to go practice a little bit to get it all together then...but are we sure that was with a fuzz and rolled back? Or could it have been the Sound City One Hundred on that one? I've never made a clip of that amp, BTW. Perhaps give that one a try?
Last edited by shakti on Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by Xplorer » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:42 pm

you have a sound city one hundred clone ?? or is it the cp103 we used to talk about ?
yeah, would love to hear it in some clips ! will build one and i realise i never even heard it ...
so yes please Thorleif :)

yes, castle made of sand, i'm sure that this fuzz ( maybe without the fuzz knob up ) would get you there, into a 45/100.
neck/middle pickups , not necessarily strat volume down.

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by daveweyer » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:46 pm

Nice sounding clip of the BBC sound.
It sounds to me like folks have worked very hard over the years to nail these early sounds. Lots of effort and tweaking must have gone into this. As far as I can tell these units have much better fuzz and tone than the original junk we worked with, cleaner, tighter, and more clarity. I think Jimi would have gladly used one of these instead of what he had at the time if it had been available.
So many tones were simply byproducts of circumstance in the first days of experimenting with all this newfangled feedback and intentional distortion, something to think about when you look toward reproducing so called "authentic" tone. I can tell you with some certainty that Jimi was not satisfied with what he had, and was always looking for something more tonally satisfying, in keeping with his ever evolving vision of where his music should be going.
Nice work on this though.

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:48 pm

Xplorer wrote:you have a sound city one hundred clone ?? or is it the cp103 we used to talk about ?
yeah, would love to hear it in some clips ! will build one and i realise i never even heard it ...
so yes please Thorleif :)

yes, castle made of sand, i'm sure that this fuzz ( maybe without the fuzz knob up ) would get you there, into a 45/100.
neck/middle pickups , not necessarily strat volume down.
Yes, it's the CP103, but for all intents and purposes it's the same amp. I've played around with the few values that differ and the difference is very small.
JTM45 RS OT, 1973 18W, JTM45/100, JTM50, JMP50 1986, JMP100 "West Coast", AC15, AC30, BF Super Reverb, Boogie Mk 1, Hiwatt CP103, DR103

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:51 pm

daveweyer wrote:Nice sounding clip of the BBC sound.
It sounds to me like folks have worked very hard over the years to nail these early sounds. Lots of effort and tweaking must have gone into this. As far as I can tell these units have much better fuzz and tone than the original junk we worked with, cleaner, tighter, and more clarity. I think Jimi would have gladly used one of these instead of what he had at the time if it had been available.
So many tones were simply byproducts of circumstance in the first days of experimenting with all this newfangled feedback and intentional distortion, something to think about when you look toward reproducing so called "authentic" tone. I can tell you with some certainty that Jimi was not satisfied with what he had, and was always looking for something more tonally satisfying, in keeping with his ever evolving vision of where his music should be going.
Nice work on this though.
Thanks! Though the guy who deserves the accolades is Stu, who built this great fuzz. But yeah, it is extremely satisfying to feel that I've finally nailed *that* sound that I've dug for so long.

I always have trouble getting good recordings of fuzz with this very crude setup. The iPhone makes everything sound a little same-y. So I think some of the nuances that set this aside from a fuzzface or Axis or whatever do not translate well enough into this recording. It's also very much a *feel* thing which you can't really experience other than play it yourself.
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by Xplorer » Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:40 pm

we need to buy it ...
:D
how much is this one ?

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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by matriarch » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:18 am


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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by shakti » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:18 am

Nice! Do you know which fuzz he uses for that one?
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Re: NHPD (New Hendrix Pedal Day): BBC tone nailed!

Post by matriarch » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:17 am

shakti wrote:Nice! Do you know which fuzz he uses for that one?
http://chasetone.com/red-stardust-germanium-fuzz/

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