Fuzz experience

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shakti
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by shakti » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:19 pm

That second clip was awesome Adrien! WOuld love to hear some more gain with the fuzz, but the breakup and amount of "clank" and "cut" it gives sounds perfect. Terrific sounding vibe as well!
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Xplorer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by Xplorer » Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:22 pm

The vibe track; you can hear a fade or distortion in the sweep. Like something too hot in the signal...
i don't really see what you mean, to me it sounds even better. the vibe blends way better with the signal, with this amp and fuzz. with this fuzz mod, if i play gentle, it gives a nice thick clean sound, while if i go harder, it'll get distorted in a nice way i think. the vibe doesn't kill the distortion, it's quite blending with it.
That second clip was awesome Adrien! WOuld love to hear some more gain with the fuzz, but the breakup and amount of "clank" and "cut" it gives sounds perfect. Terrific sounding vibe as well!
thank you ! that's what i hear too !
oh well, i'd just need to turn the fuzz gain up a little bit, and play at studio level .... with no doubt it'd kill any fuzz out there ! ;)
for now it's just volume on 9, and gain on 0 ;) it already gives a lot, and a great Crunch to my ears. indeed, it delivers this kind of clean attack, yet crunchy sometimes. it gives more options to the fingers, much more responsive

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JimiJames
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by JimiJames » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:11 pm

no, the Tone is great !!! Nothing wrong at all. At times, when there's a fuzz & vibe involved, there is this saturation thing at the peak that takes away from the signal. I had a better listen on the computer this time and got to hear the vibe's heartbeat. Your clone sounds fantastic like a real vibe should and not have the sweep of a glorified Phase. Your playing hit Jimi-things I look for with this combination. GJ !

That fuzz ! awesome !

(oh, I might be able to clips of the '69 Stratocaster/KR MegaVIBE/*fuzz*/Superbass/Jimi bottom next week.
*Several fuzz's to try. Bonamassa/Octavian/Boss Tone or clone)
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Xplorer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by Xplorer » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:56 pm

JimiJames wrote:no, the Tone is great !!! Nothing wrong at all. At times, when there's a fuzz & vibe involved, there is this saturation thing at the peak that takes away from the signal. I had a better listen on the computer this time and got to hear the vibe's heartbeat. Your clone sounds fantastic like a real vibe should and not have the sweep of a glorified Phase. Your playing hit Jimi-things I look for with this combination. GJ !

That fuzz ! awesome !

(oh, I might be able to clips of the '69 Stratocaster/KR MegaVIBE/*fuzz*/Superbass/Jimi bottom next week.
*Several fuzz's to try. Bonamassa/Octavian/Boss Tone or clone)
wow ! thanks ! although it's still crappy playing. But you heard it on a laptop speaker ? maybe that's the reason why there's this saturation thing going on, i still have troubles understanding the sound you heard.

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Xplorer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by Xplorer » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:01 pm

JimiJames wrote:
Xplorer wrote:i'd love to your some clips from your setup ! :) it sounds interesting
:oops: I would like to do that, but I have to track down another NKT275. All I have to offer is this track with a 1969 RW cap '05 ri, neck pickup which I believe are the Custom Shop '69's - straight into a Metro '69 Superlead add reverb - mid '70's cab w/Blackback's ( no 1982JH Big Bottom here)

https://m.soundcloud.com/user5906127/a- ... VdAfa#play
_________

The 1st track is great and you can hear how different it sounds compared to a generic stock fuzz. It would sound really good with what I have. :-D

The vibe track; you can hear a fade or distortion in the sweep. Like something too hot in the signal...
sounds great man ! and doing it with the original drum track from Jimi, that sounds really cool !

i'll maybe do the same + the original basse. we couldn't dream a better backing track than the original, love it.

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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by daveweyer » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:31 pm

Okay, I missed some posts because I was messing with the Jimi gear. Glad to see some action here. I'll try to get some audio posted of Jimi's Wah playing Xplorer's licks. Also the three transistor fuzz through the Guild, and through a West Coast SL.
The 2N527 works great in the West Coast fuzz, but the 2N591 seems to work the best in the first and second stages, hfe of 108 and 140 respectively. Hard to find 525s or 527s with that much beta.
Again, having control of the gain of Q1 and Q2 individually makes for some subtle shades of distortion. It is a lot less "buzzy" with the gain of Q2 down and the gain of Q1 up to about half.
Probably have to demonstrate to make any sense.

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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by sosecho » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:10 am

I have some TI 2n525 but they are weird, 4 have 30hfe but 2 measure 108 and 100. 2n508 is another option they are usually over 100hfe, the few I have at least. I'll look for 2n591. I'm sure the 3 transistor West Coast fuzz is the one to build. It would also be fun to try out the 2 transistor version. Besides the 2 transistor mods you mentioned before. Input resistor, output cap, 100hfe 2n525 and volume pot as q2 collector load. Did you change other resistor values to reach about 1.2v and 5v at q1c and q2c respectively. Like a 2k gain pot and changed q1 load?
I guess I should just try to tune it myself and evaluate, but it would be fun to hear your ideas.

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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by daveweyer » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:41 pm

I have found that depending on the transistors you use, Q1 collector voltage can go all the way down to -.4 volts or so. I think it is about-.55 volts on the three transistor fuzz with the 2N591s. Because it varies so much, I use a pot in the DC feedback network and listen to the distortion characteristics--you can hear when it gets into cutoff either at the high end or the low end. I just pick the spot that sounds the best, and then measure the pot value at that point. On the old prototype three transistor fuzz I used fixed resistance for most of the value, and then added a pot which adjusts between those upper and lower limits for Q1 collector voltage (it adjusts the DC value on the base of Q1). This way you can fool around with the operating point for Q1 but not get completely out of the ballpark. The resistance range is about from 210K to 250K.
It will be different on the two transistor fuzz because there is not as much voltage on the emitter of Q2.

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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by daveweyer » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:56 pm

In response to Xplorer's second clip, I thought it was great too. In fact, I don't think there is much more to be had from a fuzz, even the three transistor fuzz. Bill and Xplorer have demonstrated that pretty well.

We've had many discussions about how much fuzz Jimi actually used, and I have argued that from '69 on, not much. It is pretty apparent that he used a lot more in the early Experience days, you can quite clearly hear it on Purple Haze and other tunes.

But when Jimi started really bringing a lot of gear to West Coast, I noticed that the fuzz controls were mostly way down and the gain controls were way up. That's what gave me the idea to put the output pot right in the collector load, and then use the pedal to overdrive the amp input. Jimi actually was moving in that direction already, and I just borrowed the concept and expanded it a little further.

The pedals you have been making are really more for gain than fuzz, the fuzz circuit just adds a little grit on its clean setting. You can go back to Purple Haze if you need to, but most of the interest here seems to be the clean tones and sustain of BOG. I like it too.

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JimiJames
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by JimiJames » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:17 am

(oh, I might be able to clips of the '69 Stratocaster/KR MegaVIBE/*fuzz*/Superbass/Jimi bottom next week.
*Several fuzz's to try. Bonamassa/Octavian/Boss Tone or clone)
What's up guys.
Adrien, in trying to keep that promise, I contacted a friend that had a very early Uni-Vibe
(also recognized by the top of the controller) that he had refurbished. He also opted for a new foot controller so he can store the original for safekeeping. We were all set to go with a little recording to capture the occasion. He had used it twice prior breaking it out of storage, but unfortunately it wasn't working :-/
I took several internal picture's of the unit since I had the chance to, but
here's a look at the setup !
https://c6.staticflickr.com/1/541/31833 ... bb92_z.jpg
We had the Deja & Octo on the ready, too.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/717/31461 ... 4195_z.jpg

Hopefully, we'll give it another try after the repair...
______________________________________________________________________________________
daveweyer wrote:Okay, I missed some posts because I was messing with the Jimi gear. Glad to see some action here. I'll try to get some audio posted of Jimi's Wah playing Xplorer's licks. Also the three transistor fuzz through the Guild, and through a West Coast SL..."
A little wah entertainment...
http://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/play ... d=13503304
:jimi:
RIP Mark Abrahamian-rockstah -classmate/roommate
RIP Ben Wise -StuntDouble- comrade-in-arms

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Xplorer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by Xplorer » Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:49 am

JimiJames wrote:
(oh, I might be able to clips of the '69 Stratocaster/KR MegaVIBE/*fuzz*/Superbass/Jimi bottom next week.
*Several fuzz's to try. Bonamassa/Octavian/Boss Tone or clone)
What's up guys.
Adrien, in trying to keep that promise, I contacted a friend that had a very early Uni-Vibe
(also recognized by the top of the controller) that he had refurbished. He also opted for a new foot controller so he can store the original for safekeeping. We were all set to go with a little recording to capture the occasion. He had used it twice prior breaking it out of storage, but unfortunately it wasn't working :-/
I took several internal picture's of the unit since I had the chance to, but
here's a look at the setup !
https://c6.staticflickr.com/1/541/31833 ... bb92_z.jpg
We had the Deja & Octo on the ready, too.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/717/31461 ... 4195_z.jpg

Hopefully, we'll give it another try after the repair...
______________________________________________________________________________________
daveweyer wrote:Okay, I missed some posts because I was messing with the Jimi gear. Glad to see some action here. I'll try to get some audio posted of Jimi's Wah playing Xplorer's licks. Also the three transistor fuzz through the Guild, and through a West Coast SL..."
A little wah entertainment...
http://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/play ... d=13503304
:jimi:
nice ! can't wait to hear your vibe clip.

cool who knows clip ! would love to grab your backing track to play on it too.

And Merry Christmas everyone !

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JimiJames
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by JimiJames » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:29 pm

RIP Mark Abrahamian-rockstah -classmate/roommate
RIP Ben Wise -StuntDouble- comrade-in-arms

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daveweyer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by daveweyer » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:54 pm

Wow, I didn't know it would make it to Ebay. It's got a life of its own!
Well you got to see the pics here first, and read the story. I even made some recordings of the equipment for you guys, I'm working on those.

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Xplorer
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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by Xplorer » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:29 pm

Hi, happy new year everyone !!
sorry Dave i've been away in South of France for some days, but here it is, the fuzz clip with the cool feedbacks played by yourself !

https://soundcloud.com/xplorer80/ssbslightreturn

So how did the auction go ? And what about the things stolen ? that's bad ...

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Re: Fuzz experience

Post by daveweyer » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:23 pm

Folks, that clip Xplorer posted was the three transistor fuzz played through a West Coast Marshall, the fuzz was set to 2, and the output gain was set to 7.
Forgive my playing, I ain't no picker, but I was trying to show that you don't need a lot of fuzz for SSB, and that the sound and harmonic development points exactly to that.
You can get sustain out the ass by just aiming the guitar at different angles to the cabinets. There were two Marshall cabinets, one with all alnico speakers. The choratone was used since I didn't have a univibe and it was fed from the output of the Marshall amp. I left the guitar volume on about 8, and just rolled it up to keep sustain going, sometimes it seemed like it would sustain the chord forever; not just a higher harmonic, but the actual chord.
Please let me know what you think.

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