Cameron mod

[jerrydyer]

whatever man ! just havin some fun.

[briango]

I have a feeling this thread will end very typically. Someone makes some mods that people dig and a few guys ask for some insight and then it's the CRS syndrome. People should take a page out of the S.I.R. thread and see how much can come of a spec if people collectively help and share. I'm not saying if your daily job is modding amps to spill the beans, but fuck...most of us don't. Just some tips in the right direction can help. I'd say look at a schem of the XTC Red channel and you'll be in the ballpark and maybe lower the voltage to the new added tube. That'll be $50.00

[robert]

Hi Briango,

I think that this behaviour is a "worldwide amp builder forum thing".
Many guys suck their "knowledge" via thousand questions out of experienced other forum members which don't have a problem to share their knowledge.
But as soon this "sucker- guys" get an interesting, good mod (often by accident), they are not willing to share "their" mod with the other forumites

It's a very egoistic thing

Regards & merry christmas

Robert

[univalve1234]

Hi Briango,

I think that this behaviour is a "worldwide amp builder forum thing".
Many guys suck their "knowledge" via thousand questions out of experienced other forum members which don't have a problem to share their knowledge.
But as soon this "sucker- guys" get an interesting, good mod (often by accident), they are not willing to share "their" mod with the other forumites

It's a very egoistic thing

Regards & merry christmas

Robert

Ok i suspect im the "sucker" at this point. Well, briango got it spot on with what he said about the red xtc channel , do that and ur 95 % there. Bottom line is ive spent the last 6 months trying to learn what the circuit is all about then managed to read through schematics and did countless mods on my amp . I have expressed my gratitude many times in here and again if it wasnt for this forum i would never have achieved this result. I have never made "thousands of questions" to other forum members and actually i have pm'd a couple of people a while ago about some help with getting the power section right for the bogner sound and got no reply so i had to use my ear and experiment. I guess i am a sucker !!!!!

[briango]

Well I guess that's my point...why not ask for help in a thread and get some support from other members that are interested in the same sound. I'm sure that other would chime in and maybe some experienced builders would throw a bone. No one is gonna just give you the goods. We need more forum participation in threads to come up with some cool stuff. I'm done here and off my soapbox...gotta go hang with the most important thing...family

Merry Christmas

[MarkCameron]

I have a feeling this thread will end very typically. Someone makes some mods that people dig and a few guys ask for some insight and then it's the CRS syndrome. People should take a page out of the S.I.R. thread and see how much can come of a spec if people collectively help and share. I'm not saying if your daily job is modding amps to spill the beans, but fuck...most of us don't. Just some tips in the right direction can help. I'd say look at a schem of the XTC Red channel and you'll be in the ballpark and maybe lower the voltage to the new added tube. That'll be $50.00

I'm not sure if that was for me..but....Ive been around ... been doing the mods I do....long before this forum was ever here.

What...because someone isn't here to answer your questions...... tear into it and tell everyone what someones mod or circuit is ??

I have helped people on here....
...you do know?....you can search this forum??

[MarkCameron]

Hi Briango,

I think that this behaviour is a "worldwide amp builder forum thing".
Many guys suck their "knowledge" via thousand questions out of experienced other forum members which don't have a problem to share their knowledge.
But as soon this "sucker- guys" get an interesting, good mod (often by accident), they are not willing to share "their" mod with the other forumites

It's a very egoistic thing

Regards & merry christmas

Robert

Ok i suspect im the "sucker" at this point. Well, briango got it spot on with what he said about the red xtc channel , do that and ur 95 % there. Bottom line is ive spent the last 6 months trying to learn what the circuit is all about then managed to read through schematics and did countless mods on my amp . I have expressed my gratitude many times in here and again if it wasnt for this forum i would never have achieved this result. I have never made "thousands of questions" to other forum members and actually i have pm'd a couple of people a while ago about some help with getting the power section right for the bogner sound and got no reply so i had to use my ear and experiment. I guess i am a sucker !!!!!

Not a sucker.... doing the work and learning....thats what this forum is about!!

[univalve1234]

Hi Briango,

I think that this behaviour is a "worldwide amp builder forum thing".
Many guys suck their "knowledge" via thousand questions out of experienced other forum members which don't have a problem to share their knowledge.
But as soon this "sucker- guys" get an interesting, good mod (often by accident), they are not willing to share "their" mod with the other forumites

It's a very egoistic thing

Regards & merry christmas

Robert

Ok i suspect im the "sucker" at this point. Well, briango got it spot on with what he said about the red xtc channel , do that and ur 95 % there. Bottom line is ive spent the last 6 months trying to learn what the circuit is all about then managed to read through schematics and did countless mods on my amp . I have expressed my gratitude many times in here and again if it wasnt for this forum i would never have achieved this result. I have never made "thousands of questions" to other forum members and actually i have pm'd a couple of people a while ago about some help with getting the power section right for the bogner sound and got no reply so i had to use my ear and experiment. I guess i am a sucker !!!!!

Not a sucker.... doing the work and learning....thats what this forum is about!!

Thanks Mark , you rock man

[briango]

Mark,

My post was not directed at you...it was directed at the OP. My point was that for us who don't do this as a living, sharing some ideas with each other is a great way to progress a mod into something cool. There are plenty of builders who throw people a bone, I'd say you are are one of those. I have read most all of your older posts and have gotten some ideas, but not just on this forum. Some of what I have learned is from this forum and reading on my own and when I know something, I offer to help when I think I can.

I'm not sure if that was for me..but....Ive been around ... been doing the mods I do....long before this forum was ever here.

What...because someone isn't here to answer your questions...... tear into it and tell everyone what someones mod or circuit is ??

I have helped people on here....
...you do know?....you can search this forum??

I didn't tear into anyones circuit, I used my ears to listen to his clip and said what I heard. From his clip it sounded like an amp I have played thru before that could be tweaked a bit more...nothing more.

Brian

[Triodinator]

Ya know? I've seen guys work on their projects and keep a timeline on this forum so everyone can see whats up? Or they post a layout; recently, Xenrelic comes to mind? These are the guys that are a big help to this forum. I think it smells like stinky cheese when someone posts a clip? People like it, then they do a 180 and say "Ahh, I ferget,!". I'd have more respect for someone who just come out and said up front. " I'd rather not reveal everything guys, but? here are some tips". Or just post the thing out there. After all, isn't this is what this forum is all about? Maybe we could start another forum for guys who don't want to reveal their achievements. After all I'm sure you learned from this forum yourself? Unless you and Mark C. are friends and he is showing you? In that case, to use his name to start a thread to showboat what he has shown you would not be too cool?

Here is what is supposed to be the OD channel of the Bogner. Hope this helps someone. These pictures are for educational use and I have no way of verifying their accuracy.

I've gotten pretty good results with a 2203 style pre amp by increasing the gain on v1a and b, (pretty standard to lower resistor values to like 4.7 K and 2.5K or so. I put mine on a switch to adjust values. I decreased the first coupling cap to get rid of some flub... then attenuated the signal between v1a and v1b, I changed the voltage at v2. I decreased the first filter cap to 32Uf, Changed to .1 caps at the phase inverter. and finally filtering the signal at the input to ground with like a .0047 or at the gain control with a low value cap. This adds to the mids and seems to add crunch. Just my .02 cents. I think voltages are key. I don't think you really need another tube to achieve a nice crunchy distortion. Less tubes make for a less compressed and more organic tone to me. The Plate driven tone stacks are like ice picks in my ears. Tons of gain though... I would suppose if you were to tweak with it enough, you could get the magic back. But to me? a CFer is king. So you see it's kinda like a 1959 with a boost. Minus one channel I guess. If you've ever played a 1959 with a good OD pedal? You know it rocks. I made all bypass caps switched .068/off/25uf. There, I think this is a ton of information that I have found by trial and error, I searched the forums and talk with alot of helpful guys! Oh and I added an Iron sounds effects loop too. No re inventing the wheel here guys! If you looked at a Jose' Mod, some of the pieces are in there. Though I did not use that as a referance. My ideas are not set in stone and you could do a million changes to it to move on with it. If I were to add another 12ax7 I would want it as another channel by itself. I like the sound of my amp that much! If I can get my mike and PC up and running I'll post some clips sometime.

[briango]

I was thinking about the plate driven tone stack and I think if you have the tonestack and then the 4th stage behind it, it helps to smooth some of that harshness and allows some more shaping to be done before it hits the PI. I believe Lee Jackson was one who started doing this with his mods. I also think it depends where or what type of MV you use in this circuit to push things. I'm a big fan of early low filtering in the preamp and on the screens, but I like pretty stock mains filtering. As soon as I sell my 50 watter I'm going to build another chassis up and try the plate driven stack but try some different types of cascade to keep the compression down as Triodinator mentioned that usually happens in this situation.

[Triodinator]

You are correct. You do not use one of the first triodes, run into a CF'er and add one half of a 12ax7 after it. He runs the heaters off of V2, then 100k .022/ 220K I believe are the values. I have it somewhere, once I find it I'll let you know for sure. He also changes the Phase inverter to .1's

Merry Christmas!

[novosibir]

I was thinking about the plate driven tone stack and I think if you have the tonestack and then the 4th stage behind it, it helps to smooth some of that harshness and allows some more shaping to be done before it hits the PI. I believe Lee Jackson was one who started doing this with his mods. I also think it depends where or what type of MV you use in this circuit to push things.

No, it's been Laney, who came up first w/ four gain stages & CF before the tone stack and an additional gain stage after the tone stack already in mid 80's - at a time, as Lee Jackson (and me too) still were learning electronics and studying schems of others

They've also introduced some kind of solid state clipper after the 5-th gain stage, still before the Master.

Check the attached schem!

Larry

[briango]

Cool...Thanks for the info Larry

[univalve1234]

ok guys , never ment to piss anyone off , just posted a clip of my amp and wanted some feedback . When i said i couldnt remember exactly what goes on in there i was just bein honest, i changed that thing so many times i lost track and lost my mind a bit too. So here goes, i had a chance to open amp the chassis the other day and have a look. For the preamp i went with a 1.5uf over 2.3k and .68 over 820r for the cathodes, i think thats close to standard bogner blue channel. the couplers are mustard 0.0022 there and the plates bypassed with 470p. For the extra preamp i have a sozo 0.022 with 10k on the cathode and 470k 470k/470p. Plates are bypassed again with 470p. Cathode follower is 1k , the rest is pretty much jcm 800. Output couplers are mustard 0.1 and the filtering in the power section is lowered , 50 mains , 16 16 screens and PI and 33 for preamp. My tubes are mullards in the preamp and jj el34 in the power section . Amp is biased a bit cold about 29 MVolts with 476 plate voltages. Used 500k for gain pot and master volume .
I hope all this helps