fake mustards

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crumb
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fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:32 pm

hello everyone,

How can leads on 50 year old caps not be tarnished?
i recently bought some .022 400v mustard caps from ebay, and when i got them i noticed that the leads are shiny, polished.
I compared these caps to ones in my stash, and my stashed caps all have tarnished leads.
I then pulled out the digi scales, measured 6 NOS .022 400v mustards that i recently bought from an old retired amp guy ( for about 2 bucks each ) , weighed the known NOS ones at between 1.3 and 1.34 grams each...the ebay fakes weigh 1.45- 1.6 grms.
I then noticed the leads are shorter on these fake ones.( although this on its own isnt enough..they were made all over the place)
When i contacted the seller, who shall remain nameless at this point ( im currently getting a refund through ebay) he said things like " well, yours are fake, not mine, I've never seen the fonts running across mustard caps" and other choice comments like " well, yours are the lighter ones so theyre gonna be fake " ( lmfao) Also, he has, in order to prevent giving me a refund, stated to ebay that nowhere in his ad did he say the caps were 50 years old..
I am now convinced that all mustard caps with a date code of 22p and 33p are fake, for the .022 400v on ebay, i further suggest, on light evidence..that they are being manufactured in Turkey, as turkey seems to be the origin of ebay sales of bags and bags of new caps from the seventies, in values that realistically disappeared from the face of the earth probably thirty years ago. of course Turkey was a massive manufacturer in the seventies wasnt it..That where all marshalls come from right.. Turkey?
Isn't it amazing..one bag after the other of .022 and .01 mustards...and all these ' cap kits' on ebay with caps that all have the same couple of date codes..I questioned another ebay seller recently about the authenticity of his product, and he responded with something like " no, they all come in philips bags..theyre new ( oh yes, they are new ) . When i asked him, and this seller im in a dispute with now whether or not theyd opened up any of these caps to investigate, I get ignored. gee i wonder why?
Ive been trying to add photos to this post, however its not accepting them.
Is there any other way of attaching photos to this post?
thanks
tassos

shakti
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Re: fake mustards

Post by shakti » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:28 pm

Photos would be great. I bought a lot of mustards from Greece on Ebay, but that was about 8 or 9 years ago. I remember thinking it was a bit odd back then. OTOH, these were pretty standard fare in the 70s, so batches could easily have made their way to Greece. The ones I bought all had 1966 date codes and looked alright to my untrained eye. Leads were the right thickness and not too shiney.
JTM45 RS OT, 1973 18W, JTM45/100, JTM50, JMP50 1986, JMP100 "West Coast", AC15, AC30, BF Super Reverb, Boogie Mk 1, Hiwatt CP103, DR103

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:42 pm

hello

this is the message i receive when trying to post image/s

ERROR
The image must be at least 0 pixels wide, 0 pixels high and at most 5000 pixels wide and 5000 pixels high. The submitted image is 5312 pixels wide and 2988 pixels high.

ill try again a bit later the dog is demanding walkies

tassos

RockinRocket
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Re: fake mustards

Post by RockinRocket » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:19 pm

crumb wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:42 pm
hello

this is the message i receive when trying to post image/s

ERROR
The image must be at least 0 pixels wide, 0 pixels high and at most 5000 pixels wide and 5000 pixels high. The submitted image is 5312 pixels wide and 2988 pixels high.

ill try again a bit later the dog is demanding walkies

tassos
They easily could be fake.. Ive questioned this stuff before too but honestly Mustards were ubiquitous then.
We still find sealed bags of values no one wants.. and that to me would suggest a seller who likely found a stash from a old repair/ham radio shop owner. Thats usually who I buy from.

Another thing I do is look in old amps and you can see the date codes and script and even the dull or shiny varnish on the cap. If the seller has something that looks exact in a old amp (example BOP date hundreds sold on ebay) I usually get a good feeling they are real.

Then how many folks are building old vintage amps and actually care about Mustards? Probably not many. So say 100 bags of 100 caps of .022 probably wouldn't be uncommon hanging around all these years either.

Still these would be easy to fake. But I will say don't worry about it.
Its just a piece of plastic wraped up in a foil. So Mustards are not magic!

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:43 pm

hello

this is the message i get now

ERROR
Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.

will keep trying, send me a note if you want the images, im in and out so youll get them in the next few hours, ill try again later

tassos

RockinRocket
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Re: fake mustards

Post by RockinRocket » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:46 pm

Just to add.

If a seller wanted to fake a cap and make it authentic by having tarnished leads its very easy to do that :evil:.
Also caps of the same value weigh different. Sometimes its as simple as the year, manufacturing plant and the thickness of the casing.

Lots of my mustards have clean leads and I know they are legit. They were probably stored ok or better than the ones you have.
Tarnished leads means the cap was left out and not cared for. I usually avoid these.

Resistors usually have tarnished leads. One side of the lead may be fine and the other side completely black.
Its just the way they were stored in the cardboard real and what side was exposed to the elements.

Anyways the only cap to fake would be the .68uf. That's the bang for the buck!!

Check your PM box for my email.

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:50 pm

" So say 100 bags of 100 caps of .022 probably wouldn't be uncommon hanging around all these years either"

what about 5 million bags? hahahaa

theft is theft, per gram do you realise this scam returns more than the manufacture of illicit drugs?
Im sorry to inform you but...there are not hundreds of bags of .022 mustards hanging around anywhere except in the dirty scam warehouses.
So lets just keep using them eh? because we don't mind, do we?
Listen bud, people care a great deal about getting ripped off.
Are you a seller of these by any chance?

tassos

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:52 pm

oh, i have no doubt theyll tarnish their leads now.
And theyll change the date code...
And everyone will lap them up..and more bags will appear..and more..and more.
The photos i have are self explanatory..but i have to go now.
I will pm you the photos, no worries, anyone else want them pls ask, and can someone else try and post them
gotta go

tassos

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axeman
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Re: fake mustards

Post by axeman » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:06 pm

.
Last edited by axeman on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RockinRocket
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Re: fake mustards

Post by RockinRocket » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:06 pm

First, I have no idea if your caps are fake as I haven't seen them.

I own a 3-4 hundred Mustards from various values, dates, scripts and manufacturing plants. I have real ones.
Are any of them fake? Maybe, but Id say probably not.

Who you buy the 22p 33p caps from? Dude in Texas? I bought a bag from him at a good price.
I questioned if thy were legit because he has hundreds of them.

Heres my thought.
The internet and Ebay have only really been availble for 20 years.
With folks probably just realizing within the last 15 years they can sell their crap they didnt know they could easily.

Amp builders or Plexi heads would buy these Mustards in the early days of ebay because no on new the value and scored great deals. Now they are selling for what ever reason. Trust me deals are out there. 50$ scored me 1600$ todays market of ISKRA resistors early this year.

RockinRocket
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Re: fake mustards

Post by RockinRocket » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:03 pm

Where are the photos! LOL

Ebay will refund you, Buyers all ways win but honestly from what you have stated in this thread nothing seems unordinary.

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:22 pm

ok, just got back.
ill send you those shortly mate, sorry but ive been out and i hate computers.
" nothing out of the ordinary" - couldn't agree more, you guys, and now i, have been ripped off for the last 20 years or so.
if it were the case that people had somehow found and stockpiled the caps twenty years ago..then..that was twenty years ago. how many clones have been made since then? just five or ten perhaps?
its probably an idea to wonder about why marshall stopped using them in the first place..did they not sound good enough?
THEY RAN OUT OF THEM.
There are no more NOS .022 left, except in ones..twos maybe threes or fours. the' ones that are left will have tarnished leads and varying date codes from all over the place.
The bright, completely untarnished leads of these caps is actually a dead giveaway...metal is metal and it tarnishes.
But the weight is something too...I have six .022 from different times and they all weigh between 1.3 and 1.34 grams. For the fakes to vary so much ( 1.45 to 1.6 ) is another indicator. They are slightly fatter...and they look brand new. old things look like old things.
i reckon they are in fact film and foil..except they couldnt get foil thin enough so they weigh more. if this is the case, then theyre screwed because they wont be able to find thinner film.
It may be an idea in that instance for others to photograph what they have, and maybe weigh them and then compare all the results.When the seller labelled my own ones that i have here as being fake, thats when i realised he knew what he was selling. When he tried to weasel out of refunding by reminding ebay that in no way did he describe the caps as being 50 years old..i started to dislike him
golden rule, if the thing looks fifty years old..it probably is..for now. the cloners will simply adapt to a market that stops buying their cloned caps.
another golden rule..if someone implies they have 100 vintage .022 400v caps..they dont.
these pieces of crap i got in the mail yesterday arent older than two years..more likely one month.
if you want to see the images, send me your address. ill make sure you get em.
ok rocket..youre first.the four that are grouped together are the fakes..and you'll see the fakes in the other shots

tassos
Last edited by crumb on Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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axeman
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Re: fake mustards

Post by axeman » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:42 pm

.
Last edited by axeman on Fri Nov 02, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 pm

The seller tried to tell me that mustards dont come with writing that goes across the face, that the writing goes along the longer part of the cap...He said that nowhere on ebay can he find any images of mustards with writing that goes across the face

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... 15&_sop=10

When I'm refunded, ill post his emails to me here , for your laughing pleasure.

tassos

crumb
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Re: fake mustards

Post by crumb » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:58 pm

axeman, they look fake to me, but without having them in my hand to compare, i cant tell properly.
see that kind of chamfer towards the ends of those .1s? I havent seen that before, polarised electrolytics have that.
also, they look to be too large, but again, i cant tell properly. real .022 are quite small, and those .1 look like 630v not 400v. pls dont think im saying your caps are fake, im saying they look fake to me from that brief glimpse of them in that amp. after seeng what I've seen, if someone says they have 100 .022 or .1 mustards, i'd say, no, you dont.

tassos

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