100W Seminar @ Dallas Show vintage Marshall & Metropoulos

[neikeel]

It was fascinating to listen to these clips.
I have a similar B cab with '69 G12H75Hz prerolas (gigged with it last night actually) and the tones of the 68SL (single halo xf2s) are identical to those produced by mine. The clean zone is a bit limited but it rocks out with the best. My '67 is a Drake -119 also with dual halo xf2s. This amp has a rich complex tone which will go all the way from the cleans to that dirty tone you had there, where it excels is in the quality of the in between crunch tones and its touch dynamics. I have a similar vintage JTM50 with the -128OT and its repertoire is very similar but at lower volumes, although both sound better to me through G12M20s and funnily enough G65s). My 45/100 is a clone I made using the earliest metro trannies and it really is close to the originals I have played (the 'you know who' made OT clone was identical installed in an original resto). I have a Marstran equipped clone in progress so hope that is in the right area too.

Great work, would be a great reference sticky and I would also like to hear the Germino versions

[swankmotee]

[quote="neikeel"]It was fascinating to listen to these clips.
I have a similar B cab with '69 G12H75Hz prerolas (gigged with it last night actually) and the tones of the 68SL (single halo xf2s) are identical to those produced by mine. The clean zone is a bit limited but it rocks out with the best. My '67 is a Drake -119 also with dual halo xf2s. This amp has a rich complex tone which will go all the way from the cleans to that dirty tone you had there, where it excels is in the quality of the in between crunch tones and its touch dynamics. I have a similar vintage JTM50 with the -128OT and its repertoire is very similar but at lower volumes, although both sound better to me through G12M20s and funnily enough G65s). My 45/100 is a clone I made using the earliest metro trannies and it really is close to the originals I have played (the 'you know who' made OT clone was identical installed in an original resto). I have a Marstran equipped clone in progress so hope that is in the right area too.

Great work, would be a great reference sticky and I would also like to hear the Germino versions [/quote

Yeah, that was one of the bummers of that day in that Greg had an amp in route to me via FedEx and it didn't arrive until 8:00pm that evening when I was already packed up!ARRRGGGGH! I was so bummed about that since I feel his stuff is so good in comparison to the originals and I have a lot of experience with them giving me chills! I am planning on doing a second session to add one of his amps into the video along with a few others that didn't make it in that day. Thanx for the kind comments and glad you enjoyed it!

[swankmotee]

So many of these sound great, but I think my personal favorite is the original 67 SL. What are the specs of that beauty? Dagnall or Drake OT? Is it by any chance a blackflag (dual rectifier), as you talk about Hendrix and Clapton using it a lot. For a 67 that should be a black flag, as this is what both reportedly used quite a bit.
Btw. is the metro a 67 or 68 SL? - in the clip you say 67, but the title says 68?

The 67' was a later (Non-blackflag panel) Drake power & OT version and Hendrix used them all during that period. He did favor that one blackflag version that you see in a lot of the live pics but there were so many others along side it as well. And the Metro was Michael's red 67' so sorry about the typo.

[neikeel]

So many of these sound great, but I think my personal favorite is the original 67 SL. What are the specs of that beauty? Dagnall or Drake OT? Is it by any chance a blackflag (dual rectifier), as you talk about Hendrix and Clapton using it a lot. For a 67 that should be a black flag, as this is what both reportedly used quite a bit.
Btw. is the metro a 67 or 68 SL? - in the clip you say 67, but the title says 68?

The 67' was a later (Non-blackflag panel) Drake power & OT version and Hendrix used them all during that period. He did favor that one blackflag version that you see in a lot of the live pics but there were so many others along side it as well. And the Metro was Michael's red 67' so sorry about the typo.

From my memory (and Roe's timeline) it goes:
JTM45/100 KT66 with Drake 2"-84 OT (7 cap filter board_
JTM45/100 EL34 with Drake 2" -119 (8 cap filter board, dual recifiers)
JTM100 Black Flag Drake 2" -119 (8 cap fliter board, dual rectifiers)
JTM100 Black Flag Drake 2" -132 (8 cap board, dual rectifiers
********
Presumably that amp is a JMP 100 with a Drake 2" -132 OT ? ( 4 cap board, Pi cap in can up top)
********
JMP100 1 1/2" Dagnall (4 cap board + PI can)

..........etc.

[swankmotee]

So many of these sound great, but I think my personal favorite is the original 67 SL. What are the specs of that beauty? Dagnall or Drake OT? Is it by any chance a blackflag (dual rectifier), as you talk about Hendrix and Clapton using it a lot. For a 67 that should be a black flag, as this is what both reportedly used quite a bit.
Btw. is the metro a 67 or 68 SL? - in the clip you say 67, but the title says 68?

The 67' was a later (Non-blackflag panel) Drake power & OT version and Hendrix used them all during that period. He did favor that one blackflag version that you see in a lot of the live pics but there were so many others along side it as well. And the Metro was Michael's red 67' so sorry about the typo.

From my memory (and Roe's timeline) it goes:
JTM45/100 KT66 with Drake 2"-84 OT (7 cap filter board_
JTM45/100 EL34 with Drake 2" -119 (8 cap filter board, dual recifiers)
JTM100 Black Flag Drake 2" -119 (8 cap fliter board, dual rectifiers)
JTM100 Black Flag Drake 2" -132 (8 cap board, dual rectifiers
********
Presumably that amp is a JMP 100 with a Drake 2" -132 OT ? ( 4 cap board, Pi cap in can up top)
********
JMP100 1 1/2" Dagnall (4 cap board + PI can)

..........etc.

Sorry it took so long to get back to ya but yes the JMP 67' in the clip has Drake 1203-80 & 1202-132 with I believe a 352-114 choke.

[swankmotee]

Thanks for theinfo! Ok, this explains the extremely natural tonality of the recordngs... wow - styrofoam head... some serious stuff went into this. Even more impressive if you did all that in one day...
Well, it seems like if that douche from dangerousguitars wouldn't have screwed you over, you probably wouldn't have done a studio version. I suppose the micing was not nearly as impressive in the seminar itself as in the studio - in regard to sound quality (for "amp in the room" tone, not mix context) these clips can hardly be beat - seems like a very fair impression - never too compressed or too close to the cab, etc. and not too dry either. I suppose the Neumanns will be LDC, not ribbons.
Yes thanks, more detailed info on the mic setup would be great. I myself am looking into the Rode NT2A, at some point maybe as stereo pair.

Sorry Charlie for taking so long but Michael just shot me an email with the mic specs and they were Royer R-121 & Royer R-101 on the cab with a Neumann KV100 binaural head mic along with a Neumann KMS105 as the room/talkback. Very nice stuff that helped greatly in getting "the" real tone to hard drive.

[jimmyride]

Wow, this is awesome. Thanks a lot for these clips, I enjoyed every bit of them.

[swankmotee]

Wow, this is awesome. Thanks a lot for these clips, I enjoyed every bit of them.

Thank you and glad you enjoyed them!

[jimmyride]

I'm kinda disappointed though that none of the replicas doesn't stand a chance compared to the original amps.. I knew there would be some difference but I thought it wouldn't be so obvious.

[neikeel]

I'm kinda disappointed though that none of the replicas doesn't stand a chance compared to the original amps.. I knew there would be some difference but I thought it wouldn't be so obvious.

I have got close with three amps. A 12 series with Metro trannies (jape 88 has that) a JTM45/100 Black Flag (lives in Canada) and my 2 in 1 with Marstran trannies, sounds better than my 68 JMP50 but not as good as my '67 Black Flag 50. Time does help them settle in and subtle tweaks also help. The clones are nearly always brighter using clean settings and have less of the complex harmonics when overdriven, pretty much like a lot of new off the shelf boutique amps.

[VintageCharlie]

Yes, the difference is very obvious when the amps are recorded identically... But still i thought the Wallace 45/100 was very close to the original, but the others (even though sounding great) don't nail that organic, round, warm tone of the original 67, 68, for example. Yeah, and the pcb 73 with strat is really something amazing. I don't really understand why t sounds so huge - you said due to a particularily bright OT, but wouldn't that rather cause a thin and tinny sound?

[swankmotee]

Yes, the difference is very obvious when the amps are recorded identically... But still i thought the Wallace 45/100 was very close to the original, but the others (even though sounding great) don't nail that organic, round, warm tone of the original 67, 68, for example. Yeah, and the pcb 73 with strat is really something amazing. I don't really understand why t sounds so huge - you said due to a particularily bright OT, but wouldn't that rather cause a thin and tinny sound?

the OT in that 73' is RIGHTEOUS and the reason I have held on to that amp for all these years! I have always wanted to do a comparison for folks who said that PCB amps weren't as good because many are stellar and 73' was a banner year for all the ingredients to come together. I really love all three that I own and they always get peoples attention at the seminars because they kick serious butt. I built my whole identity and tonal reference playing Strats through that amp and have never gotten another to sound as good but yeah that 68' was really fine and I'm totally bummed I didn't end up with it! I really wish I had had the Germino Fillmore for these demos (I'm going to add it on later) because that amp really sounded just like a great original! It was still in the FedEx truck all day when I was recording! Greg's stuff is something special due to him having a great ear for matching stellar trannies with modern tubes. Brian Wallace has also got a great ear and makes some stellar sounding trannies (Marstan) and thats why his stuff sounds so special. Also must mention Chris ****** because his trannies are really incredible sounding too!

[jimmyride]

I'm kinda disappointed though that none of the replicas doesn't stand a chance compared to the original amps.. I knew there would be some difference but I thought it wouldn't be so obvious.

I have got close with three amps. A 12 series with Metro trannies (jape 88 has that) a JTM45/100 Black Flag (lives in Canada) and my 2 in 1 with Marstran trannies, sounds better than my 68 JMP50 but not as good as my '67 Black Flag 50. Time does help them settle in and subtle tweaks also help. The clones are nearly always brighter using clean settings and have less of the complex harmonics when overdriven, pretty much like a lot of new off the shelf boutique amps.

The 12xxx is the only amp I built. I used the heyboer trannies and George's layout. I'm kind of a purist and I want it to be stock. I was able to buy a set of pihers from here too. Well, maybe Iskras are more vintage correct but they are really hard to find. There are some things to work on yet though. I need to get real mustards to replace the sozos and probably change the choke. I have a 7H one, metro specs and I'll get 3H from Marstran. I had a slight problem with ghosting but it went away while the amp was burning in. Larry grounding scheme helped that a lot I guess. It sounds great but not so huge/rich like the originals. What about OT? What would I achieve changing it for a Marstran or M e r r e n?

[swankmotee]

I'm kinda disappointed though that none of the replicas doesn't stand a chance compared to the original amps.. I knew there would be some difference but I thought it wouldn't be so obvious.

I have got close with three amps. A 12 series with Metro trannies (jape 88 has that) a JTM45/100 Black Flag (lives in Canada) and my 2 in 1 with Marstran trannies, sounds better than my 68 JMP50 but not as good as my '67 Black Flag 50. Time does help them settle in and subtle tweaks also help. The clones are nearly always brighter using clean settings and have less of the complex harmonics when overdriven, pretty much like a lot of new off the shelf boutique amps.

The 12xxx is the only amp I built. I used the heyboer trannies and George's layout. I'm kind of a purist and I want it to be stock. I was able to buy a set of pihers from here too. Well, maybe Iskras are more vintage correct but they are really hard to find. There are some things to work on yet though. I need to get real mustards to replace the sozos and probably change the choke. I have a 7H one, metro specs and I'll get 3H from Marstran. I had a slight problem with ghosting but it went away while the amp was burning in. Larry grounding scheme helped that a lot I guess. It sounds great but not so huge/rich like the originals. What about OT? What would I achieve changing it for a Marstran or M e r r e n?[/quote
Either one are at the top tier for vintage vibe and tone in my book so give them a try but remember that it always boils down to a happy accident/marrige of two great pieces of iron doing their mojo ya know.