Eddie's PCM70 settings for Cathedral

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mikefont
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Eddie's PCM70 settings for Cathedral

Post by mikefont » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:39 pm

Anyone here catch the listing of the Cathedral settings that was printed in the Guitar World January 2021 Special Commemorative Issue? They say that they had to omit the settings from the February 2016 issue due to "space constraints", which I find that to be dubious, but either way here is what they listed (you can find it on page 87 under the effects rack image):

The PCM70 was set to the "double delay" algorithm with both delays set to 424ms, feedback 12 percent (both), mix 100 percent and the remaining parameters at zero.

If this has been posted before, then please excuse my post as I haven't seen it listed before and I think it's cool to FINALLY get those elusive settings

Peace, and RIP EVH!
Currently in tonal HEAVEN with my Bray 4550 Deluxe!

dirtycooter
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Re: Eddie's PCM70 settings for Cathedral

Post by dirtycooter » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:43 pm

The 70 precedes the sde3000's
It's basically a splitter taking mono input and outputing stereo left and right to each sde3000

The 70 cascades into the sde delays.
So the longer setting of the PCM is 100% wet.

Off it's analog bypassed still feeding each sde. So you can have just the sde delays on.

On it delays the whole signal, cascades that 400+ms delay into the sde delays. So it's that longer louder delay that has its own sde stereo repeats.

So that is more of a program that stacks delays between the two sets of boxes. in a weird way but makes sense now. I recently just figured this out. That the cathedral program also relies on sde's being on too.
It delays the delays of the sde's. Think of it that way. Trick stuff,

The original Cathedral is basically a mono delay track maybe one repeat

Live or later on you will notice the one long repeat seems to dive into more repeats and gets cavernous sounding.
Casacded delays. It's why the settings on the 70 are basically left and right the same. A monoesque deal really.
Then the SDE ping pongs it all for spacious breadth.

So you essentially get two images

One down the center, that one long repeat he works with to play cathedral against in timing.
Then you have the ping pong effect of the stereo sde's trailing off more ambiently creating the cavernous ominous breadth. With the SDE's being mixed in much more lightly.

When the SDE are on alone you have the stereo ambience he uses most of the time.

Having the 70 in front? And once it's engaged?
It delays the entire thing, including the start of those SDE delays.
So one asks man... Aren't the times of the SDE delays about as long or longer? Yes. But then you are sticking a gap of another 400+ms in there to the whole thing when you engage the 70 at 100% wet mix. That mix level being 100% wet delays the entire signal, not just adding repeats to the dry. It's basically ALL delay signal no dry.
It's just a spacer in time.
Remember he don't need a mixer here, the SDE and 70 have analog signal path mixers built in of good quality.
This factors into it also but that's another thread entirely.

So you will notice live his solo spot the 70 isn't just some bland dimensionless single repeat. It is... But it is then expanded out hitting the secondary stereo delays.
Poof!
There it isšŸ˜ and might I add brilliantly integrated to work and sound massive as well as technically superior in signal path thinking terms.

The eventide years??? Stereo pitch shift???
That comes out of the cabs stereo but... Also that mix?
All that is summed to a mono feed to send over to the lone input of that 70 which then again spreads it all left and right and the delays, both delays, are layered in again.
Hard to explain but... Think of the mixing of it all.
So either way with the eventide chorus shift in stereo or no eventide the whole delay rig handles it the same way.
It's just the eventide signal has to be collapsed down to the mono so both left and right pitches are in one channel input at the 70 then processes it for delay from there.

dirtycooter
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Re: Eddie's PCM70 settings for Cathedral

Post by dirtycooter » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:45 pm

A layman's way of thinking this through??
Put two delays in series in a mono but "parallel" fx loop.
Just for shits n giggles here....

Set the 1st delay in the loop to that one repeat long 422ms delay or whatever it is. Crank that mix 100% wet.
Bypass it now.
Move over to the 2nd delay. Set it like 40% mix and for a few ambient low level airy dimensional depth repeats.
This is your background ambient delay for most things like adding depth and dimension to solos and other stuff.
Makes it bigger sounding.

Now....... go back to delay 1 and kick that on in front of those delays in delay 2.

Hear what happens then? You play, nothing should be heard till that 1st delay kicks back it's repeat, then it devolves into the ambient 2nd delays, which have now moved their entire address the whole 422ms later in time. A chain reaction occurs but entirely 422ms later than you initially had the 2nd delay set for.

That's as simple as I can explain it.

The biggest key here??
Delay 1 when set to 100% wet?

SHOULD REMOVE ALL DRY SIGNAL! If you are using it in a wet dry wet rig.
In a single mono fx loop to level of the 1st delay has to be directly as loud as the original. In this case? Your cathedral set delay should be of 50/50 mix and the secondary delays even lower say closer to 25-30% mix.
But not being wet dry wet kinda adds a roadblock almost here. Dry will be passing through both delays. A work around would be a parallel mixing fx loop to get it working correctly. A series loop will not work I believe correctly.
In wet dry wet you have an original dry tone then the fx cabs won't play back till the 1st delay triggers.
So all you will hear when it is engaged is it's echo repeat, that then feeds the ambient delays after it that have a much less mix ratio of first delay and and it's own delay

My fave and closest ever to that 70 thing came from the pitchfactor used as a delay.
910 setting
Set for one big 422ms delay
Detune set to .98

It's fat huge and thick delay then pumps into the airier ambient thinner delays

dirtycooter
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Re: Eddie's PCM70 settings for Cathedral

Post by dirtycooter » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:46 pm

Also one more thing

If you listen to the last live record there's a few places you hear him kick it in
Everybody Wants Some he uses it.

Notice how it sounds like a big circular delay??
It's because it is basically just that almost.

Look up the circular delay YouTube vid for the DD500

One tap center from the 70
Then left and right taps from the SDE's

In the DD500 you can do it basically in one program and effect but it's still a wee tad different than the 70 and dual SDE's but not by much

Hope this all sheds some light here for people looking for this specific thing.

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