Magnetism and Pickup Placement Key Factors in VH Tone

[johnnybgoood]

Here's an eye-opener from the vintagekramer website. For me, its an independant source confirming Ed's tone search led him to a split-coil humbucker. This appears to be the standard wiring for the Kramer Baretta in the mid 80s. The screw coil is grounded. I personally wouldn't ground the red (finish) wire and I wouldn't solder in that cap on the volume pot. The SuperLead amp circuit has enough treble.

Ad with Eddie

[TWANGGG]

Interesting, but then I searched and found that same wiring diagram shows up in this thread where it is determined that the grounded coil was a mistake.
http://www.kramerforum.com/forum/index. ... ram.11037/

From the same thread here's the correct stock wiring diagram along with a photo of the actual wiring in a Baretta.

[Megaro]

Eddie was not using production Kramer items.

[Santino]

They guy who designed the peavey Wolfgang told me that the pickup that was in the original Frankenstein was a Gibson re wound by Seymour Duncan to a JB specs,he also said one of the coils was shorted out.

Ha! I've been saying this for years! Finally! Ed prefered the JB "wind"! Seymour also said it. Though at times he's a little vague and I can't blame him. He's trying to sell pickups. He usually drops the wind part and talks Ed and the JB. Or that he rewound pickups for Ed. I also say the pickup in the Kramer 5150 is a '59 with the JB wind.

[garbeaj]

Eddie was not using production Kramer items.

Absolutely correct. Production model Kramer specs had absolutely zero to do with what Eddie used during the Kramer era, and the things he used during the Kramer era had nothing to do with what he used in previous eras.

[johnnybgoood]

I'm not making myself clear. I am not suggesting in any way, shape, or form that the Kramer guitar bodies and necks (i.e. Pacer & Baretta models) had anything to do with Eddie's brown sound. Pun intended. I will go even further and say that the Charvel Strat and Ibanez Destroyer bodies did not "make" Eddie's tone either. The only reason that Kramer and Charvel are important in the discussion are strictly because Eddie's interaction with these companies are the only historical footprint we have of Van Halen in his quest for sonic identity.

I am emphasizing electric signals and magnetic fields in this thread. THE SOUND CHAMBER IN AN ELECTRIC GUITAR IS THE MAGNETIC FIELD IN THE PICKUP. I am highly stressing that Ed's tone does not come from a fully functioning PAF-type pickup.

Virtually every humbucker (ceramics included) gets its darkness and nasal sound from the screw and slug coils fighting each other to cancel out not only the 60-cycle hum but also very important frequencies in the guitar spectrum.

Ed's tone sizzles and is raw. It is clear and crisp because there are no frequencies being negated in his pickup's magnetic field. I'll bet he even did some funky wiring to his bridge pickup in the "Shark" too.

"The Emperor has no Clothes." Tone woods are just marketing propaganda. Eddie and Les Paul admitted as much when they interviewed each other and both revealed that they like factory rejects http://www.vhnd.com/2009/08/20/intervie ... from-1986/. There is no sound chamber in an electric guitar so Northern Ash has as much effect on tone as Basswood, Mahogany, and Alder. Breathing and aged wood is extremely important to the sound of either a Stradivarius violin or a Flamenco guitar. The effect on tone of a factory second body covered in bicycle paint from either the Charvel or Kramer shops is probably less than 0.01 percent.

I wasn't expecting this post to be long. It should have only been two words. Magnetic Field.

[Megaro]

johnnybgood, I am tracking with you. Keep up the thread. It is really interesting.

I was reading a thread on a different board where one guitar player suggested removing the screws from a humbucker for a more single coil sound. No other mod to the pickup other than that. He was not talking about an EVH tone, but he got a cold reception from what I recall. I have never tried that but found his post interesting. I think you are talking about a different concept, but we love to tinker with our gear around here.

[jnew]

Maybe I missed it but, which coil is the active one. The one furthest from the bridge?

[garbeaj]

I would also remind everyone that there is no one Van Halen sound. They are generally similar from album to album and tour to tour, but often they vary from song to song. For example, there is a HUGE world of difference between the tone of "I'm The One" from the first album and "You're No Good" from the second album. There is really no "sizzle" on any album except the first album to my ears. But the word "sizzle" means something different to everyone I suppose.

Just a word of caution to remind everyone about the fact that there is no one Van Halen sound. It is very important to clarify exactly WHICH Van Halen tone you are chasing among the many, many widely varying tones in the Van Halen catalog both live and on record.

I still can't draw any realistic conclusions based on anything to do with Kramer or Duncan production model equipment. Eddie's personal guitars during the classic Van Halen era were completely custom with almost nothing to do with any production model characteristics. It is an interesting thing to experiment with, but I think it is pretty well impossible to make any connection between Eddie's personal guitars and production model guitars from Kramer.

[johnnybgoood]

Maybe I missed it but, which coil is the active one. The one furthest from the bridge?

Hey jnew! You're correct. The one furthest from the bridge. The bobbin usually associated with the slugs. It has to be wound hot as well (>8k) and positioned very close to the strings.

the word "sizzle" means something different to everyone I suppose.

According to Landee, the cab was mic'd the same way for the first six albums (i.e. SM57 close mic'd on the cap edge) and a second ambient mic. I hear the brown sound sizzle up to the point where he began using those damn Soldanos.

[garbeaj]

the word "sizzle" means something different to everyone I suppose.

According to Landee, the cab was mic'd the same way for the first six albums (i.e. SM57 close mic'd on the cap edge) and a second ambient mic. I hear the brown sound sizzle up to the point where he began using those damn Soldanos.

Where did you get this quote from Landee from? Please post a link! I've never heard that before...it would be great to hear Landee discuss anything.

For my definition of the word "sizzle", as I said I only hear it on the Van Halen album. I don't hear any "sizzle" anywhere else. But I agree that the Soldano amps and all his signature amps sound like absolute mud and crap. I think the signature guitars also contributed to the decline in good tone. Plus I think the songs got worse and worse from F.U.C.K. onward.

Also, I have to repeat that there is no such thing as "the" brown sound. Eddie had completely different tones from album to album, tour to tour and oftentimes from song to song.

[jnew]

The brown sound is only a term people use to describe EVH. From that point, it's up for interpretation. VH I, VH II, etc.
As far as sizzle (again, a term used quite loosely) I would have to disagree that it's only on VH I. VH I just has the hottest signal and most gain on some of the songs. Not all of them. That amp's sizzle is quite clear on all his early stuff. Listen past the production. VH II, is produced in a very warm and more intimate way but the amp still fries. And WACF? That's one best examples of sizzle in his tone. But again, this is my interpretation of sizzle. Fair Warning's Mean Street open G chord, Push Comes To Shove solo, So This is Love, all perfect examples of that amp frying bacon.

[garbeaj]

The brown sound is only a term people use to describe EVH. From that point, it's up for interpretation. VH I, VH II, etc.
As far as sizzle (again, a term used quite loosely) I would have to disagree that it's only on VH I. VH I just has the hottest signal and most gain on some of the songs. Not all of them. That amp's sizzle is quite clear on all his early stuff. Listen past the production. VH II, is produced in a very warm and more intimate way but the amp still fries. And WACF? That's one best examples of sizzle in his tone. But again, this is my interpretation of sizzle. Fair Warning's Mean Street open G chord, Push Comes To Shove solo, So This is Love, all perfect examples of that amp frying bacon.

Hah-hah! I gotcha man...one thing we do agree on is that he lost the plot after 0U812!

[johnnybgoood]

Regarding mic'ing techniques for Van Halen...

Van Halen Rising Launch Party Ted Templeman FULL Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjblv1A6jHI#t=7m33s
"Ed's sound was pretty much there...we had to ask him to rip the screen away from the amp to get the mic right next to the speaker."

http://www.hennemusic.com/2013/12/van-h ... about.html
"we didn't use very many tracks at all. Alex's drums were probably cut using only four mics total. Even when we moved over to Ed's 5150 studio, we still did the entire band on 16-track and had room left over at the end. You just don't need a lot of tracks to get a great sound."

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/s ... e-miking-1
"Donn Landee, used to get approached by fans asking him how he recorded Eddie’s trademark guitar tone. He had to admit that he used a cheap SM57 mic on a Marshall cabinet."

http://www.guitarworld.com/eddie-van-ha ... 50-studios
"I have to give all of the credit to Donn. His approach to everything was genius. I used the same Marshall amp to record the first six Van Halen albums, but my guitar sound on each album is different. The drum sounds are different too. That was all Donn. He is a man-child genius."

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v65193220X4meZhCH
Pensado's Place - George Saer Episode 25
32:40
"Ed likes to have one kind'a close and then one a little further back in the room. And if you have to you flip the phase in...it was about getting that one direct sound off that cabinet. Ed can make anything sound good. An SM57, a 421, a C12."

[garbeaj]

Regarding mic'ing techniques for Van Halen...

Van Halen Rising Launch Party Ted Templeman FULL Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjblv1A6jHI#t=7m33s
"Ed's sound was pretty much there...we had to ask him to rip the screen away from the amp to get the mic right next to the speaker."

http://www.hennemusic.com/2013/12/van-h ... about.html
"we didn't use very many tracks at all. Alex's drums were probably cut using only four mics total. Even when we moved over to Ed's 5150 studio, we still did the entire band on 16-track and had room left over at the end. You just don't need a lot of tracks to get a great sound."

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/s ... e-miking-1
"Donn Landee, used to get approached by fans asking him how he recorded Eddie’s trademark guitar tone. He had to admit that he used a cheap SM57 mic on a Marshall cabinet."

http://www.guitarworld.com/eddie-van-ha ... 50-studios
"I have to give all of the credit to Donn. His approach to everything was genius. I used the same Marshall amp to record the first six Van Halen albums, but my guitar sound on each album is different. The drum sounds are different too. That was all Donn. He is a man-child genius."

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v65193220X4meZhCH
Pensado's Place - George Saer Episode 25
32:40
"Ed likes to have one kind'a close and then one a little further back in the room. And if you have to you flip the phase in...it was about getting that one direct sound off that cabinet. Ed can make anything sound good. An SM57, a 421, a C12."

Ok...there weren't any direct quotes from Donn himself about the mic placement. That last link doesn't work...was that a direct quote from Landee?