6402/53H1777 Greenback Clips!

[jape88]

Things is Sean, that still sounds great!
Being cheeky here, but could you try a short clip with a phone, just a couple of chords would love to hear it raw.

[garbeaj]

Its gotta be your speakers allen , cause it doesnt have the mod 5 tone that i can hear in your clips .
Marks clip of your amp sounds correct like it should but your clips are missing the tone for sure , u sure u dont have bad tubes or bias or something isnt off ? I dont here the saggy chewy mod 5 tone
Just trying to figure out what it could be are u still using the g-65 speakers ?

I'm using the 6402 cone 90s reissue Greenbacks in the clips I posted above. Like I said, I recorded all of the above with my iPhone. Mark used a 4x12 cab with the same speakers and an SM57 with extensive post production. To me, my clips sound exactly like Mark's clips, but maybe that's because I am hearing it in the room as I'm playing.

The mic'ing and headroom have a HUGE impact on the recorded sound, so I think that's where the difference is that you guys are hearing. Mark stressed this to me many times...the SM57 close mic'ed at a sweet spot that maximizes mids is really a major key. I am under no illusion that my iPhone will capture the same sound, but even so my clips don't sound that far off to me...

I agree with Allen here, the sound IS there over the iPhone, and the SM57 IS key, but, I have to weigh in about the headroom. I did a sound comparison of two levels (one at my normal recording volume at around what I consider 3, which would be 9 o'clock, and one at bedroom volume, at about 1, which is at 7 o'clock) without touching my mic input settings and bringing up the volume in my DAW (Pro Tools 11). There's a 11.2 DB difference of headroom, but little to no tonal change tbh. The main thing I think your setup would benefit from, Allen, if you want to go back to mic'ing the amp, would be to get a closed back for your combo with a baffle and a heat shield that isolated the 2x12 speakers internally as a cabinet, perhaps even considering a tad bit of insulation as well to add to that closed back, focused tone. Because I think when it comes to mic'ing, the air and open quality of the 2x12 shows in the specific woodiness frequencies. After getting that thing as tight as an EVH 2x12 cab, you'll be good to go. ALSO, if you are running 2 16ohm 6402's, remember, because that reads out as 8ohms, you need to set your head back to a 4ohm impedance to get the same warmth Mark got on his clips. He ran all of his heads at 8ohms through his 16ohm 4x12's, so you should get even closer running your 8ohm setup with a 4ohm impedance from the head.

Headroom comparison:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-explor ... comparison

Wow, that's great advice Sean! My combo is open back and I'm sure that having a closed back would definitely impact the tone. I probably won't be doing any mods to the speaker enclosure, but I must say thanks for the advice about the ohm setting! I was totally unaware of this...I looked on the back of the amp and sure enough, it was on the 8 ohm setting! I switched it to 4 ohms and later on I'll try it out and see what the difference is...I'm in the middle of travelling for Thanksgiving so I can't try it out just yet, but I'm excited to play through it with this setting!

Thanks!

[Sean_McFly]

Things is Sean, that still sounds great!
Being cheeky here, but could you try a short clip with a phone, just a couple of chords would love to hear it raw.

Done, dude

Mod5 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-exploration/mod-5-room

Bray 4550 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-explor ... -4550-room

Recorded with an iPhone in an optimal room spot to capture the essence of the amp if you were standing on the side closest to the 53H1777. PPIMV wasn't very loud on either (it was set in between my two ususal recording settings), around about 2, or like 7:30 on the clock scale of things lol. Excuse any sloppiness, for it's 36 degrees here in NY and my hands were freezing from being just outside.

[Sean_McFly]

Wow, that's great advice Sean! My combo is open back and I'm sure that having a closed back would definitely impact the tone. I probably won't be doing any mods to the speaker enclosure, but I must say thanks for the advice about the ohm setting! I was totally unaware of this...I looked on the back of the amp and sure enough, it was on the 8 ohm setting! I switched it to 4 ohms and later on I'll try it out and see what the difference is...I'm in the middle of travelling for Thanksgiving so I can't try it out just yet, but I'm excited to play through it with this setting!

Thanks!

Any time, dude!! Post me up a youtube clip when you get a chance!! In fact, if you don't want to mess anything up with your setup, you could try taking a panel of Owens Corning foam insulation (the panels, the non itchy kind you can touch) and temporarily tape it to the back of your cab on the outside and see if that tightens things up. This way you can experiment without permanently modding your combo OR without even taking it apart

I would reccomend this insulation: https://www.google.com/shopping/product ... DQodw14OGQ

[jape88]

Done, dude

Mod5 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-exploration/mod-5-room

Bray 4550 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-explor ... -4550-room

Recorded with an iPhone in an optimal room spot to capture the essence of the amp if you were standing on the side closest to the 53H1777. PPIMV wasn't very loud on either (it was set in between my two ususal recording settings), around about 2, or like 7:30 on the clock scale of things lol. Excuse any sloppiness, for it's 36 degrees here in NY and my hands were freezing from being just outside.

Many thanks for that mate, gives a great insight
The sm57 and post production is deffo the missing link for Garbeaj. Although I wouldn't miss-matched that amp to 4 imo.

[Sean_McFly]

Done, dude

Mod5 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-exploration/mod-5-room

Bray 4550 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-explor ... -4550-room

Recorded with an iPhone in an optimal room spot to capture the essence of the amp if you were standing on the side closest to the 53H1777. PPIMV wasn't very loud on either (it was set in between my two ususal recording settings), around about 2, or like 7:30 on the clock scale of things lol. Excuse any sloppiness, for it's 36 degrees here in NY and my hands were freezing from being just outside.

Many thanks for that mate, gives a great insight
The sm57 and post production is deffo the missing link for Garbeaj. Although I wouldn't miss-matched that amp to 4 imo.

You're quite welcome dude! And why would you avoid the mismatch? Mark swears by it, and, in fact, it's a very safe way to get a different speaker response, as long as the head is lower impedance than the speakers, I believe it should be fine

[jape88]

And why would you avoid the mismatch? Mark swears by it, and, in fact, it's a very safe way to get a different speaker response, as long as the head is lower impedance than the speakers, I believe it should be fine

I'm not sure of Garbeaj's set up, but imo at bedroom volume the audible difference would be minimal. It's worth trying but long term I'd stick with 8ohm. As general rule I've always believed it's better to keep the amp ohm above or equal to the speaker ohm. A big ohm difference, say 4 on the amp 16 on the speaker can cause stress on the tubes and transformer maybe I'm wrong? I'm no expert. Although I did dabble many years ago with this setting on an old marshall after reading that it 'gave more distortion' at lower volume, but not at gigging level to my peril!

[garbeaj]

Hmmm...if Mark set it at 4, then I'll try it. I really think the sound I've always been hearing in the room is identical to Mark's clips of my amp, but if setting it at 4 ohms will get it even closer I'll definitely try it!

[Sean_McFly]

And why would you avoid the mismatch? Mark swears by it, and, in fact, it's a very safe way to get a different speaker response, as long as the head is lower impedance than the speakers, I believe it should be fine

I'm not sure of Garbeaj's set up, but imo at bedroom volume the audible difference would be minimal. It's worth trying but long term I'd stick with 8ohm. As general rule I've always believed it's better to keep the amp ohm above or equal to the speaker ohm. A big ohm difference, say 4 on the amp 16 on the speaker can cause stress on the tubes and transformer maybe I'm wrong? I'm no expert. Although I did dabble many years ago with this setting on an old marshall after reading that it 'gave more distortion' at lower volume, but not at gigging level to my peril!

Allen's setup is 8ohms (2x16ohm speakers wired together), so running the head at 4ohms is like running an 8ohm head through a 16ohm cab. I agree, though. Too low and you're just running the amp unnecessarily hard. But only one impedance level down is super safe. I've been doing it for 2 years with the Mod5 head and it's worked brilliantly!

[Sean_McFly]

Hmmm...if Mark set it at 4, then I'll try it. I really think the sound I've always been hearing in the room is identical to Mark's clips of my amp, but if setting it at 4 ohms will get it even closer I'll definitely try it!

Trust me dude, it gets it that extra bit of warmth. Running a head one impedance level lower than the speaker setup adds more mids to the tone and loosens the response a bit, which is why the tightness and sizzle of a 2204 is masked in Mark's clips. An amp like that, so responsive and aggressive, really benefits from the impedance mismatch for this tone

[garbeaj]

Hmmm...if Mark set it at 4, then I'll try it. I really think the sound I've always been hearing in the room is identical to Mark's clips of my amp, but if setting it at 4 ohms will get it even closer I'll definitely try it!

Trust me dude, it gets it that extra bit of warmth. Running a head one impedance level lower than the speaker setup adds more mids to the tone and loosens the response a bit, which is why the tightness and sizzle of a 2204 is masked in Mark's clips. An amp like that, so responsive and aggressive, really benefits from the impedance mismatch for this tone

Thanks a million Sean, I can't wait to see how it works! Mark never mentioned that to me in our phone conversations and e-mails and I'm stoked to give it a shot!

[Sean_McFly]

Hmmm...if Mark set it at 4, then I'll try it. I really think the sound I've always been hearing in the room is identical to Mark's clips of my amp, but if setting it at 4 ohms will get it even closer I'll definitely try it!

Trust me dude, it gets it that extra bit of warmth. Running a head one impedance level lower than the speaker setup adds more mids to the tone and loosens the response a bit, which is why the tightness and sizzle of a 2204 is masked in Mark's clips. An amp like that, so responsive and aggressive, really benefits from the impedance mismatch for this tone

Thanks a million Sean, I can't wait to see how it works! Mark never mentioned that to me in our phone conversations and e-mails and I'm stoked to give it a shot!

You're welcome dude! I did some digging after the guy I bought mine from said in the e-mail that came with the amp, he specified that 8 ohm tap thing to the former owner. In my research I found these old forum posts from Mark right after he started selling the mod5's. Here are the screenshots:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fuqx8bfuo8xi4 ... .jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqtyw23i677jm ... .jpeg?dl=0

Plus, my theory was 100% confirmed because in a YT video, he took some pics of that orange amp set up like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/01fjleuxy6wjt ... .jpeg?dl=0

So you should be pleased with the results, if my calculations are correct

[garbeaj]

Seems to make sense...A 100W 4x12 like Mark always did would be the 8 ohm setting and my 50W 2x12 (which was the first and only 50W 2x12 combo he did) would take a 4 ohm setting as you say-correct?

[garbeaj]

Done, dude

Mod5 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-exploration/mod-5-room

Bray 4550 Room:
https://soundcloud.com/seans-evh-explor ... -4550-room

Recorded with an iPhone in an optimal room spot to capture the essence of the amp if you were standing on the side closest to the 53H1777. PPIMV wasn't very loud on either (it was set in between my two ususal recording settings), around about 2, or like 7:30 on the clock scale of things lol. Excuse any sloppiness, for it's 36 degrees here in NY and my hands were freezing from being just outside.

Many thanks for that mate, gives a great insight
The sm57 and post production is deffo the missing link for Garbeaj.

Nick, I still haven't tried the 4 ohm setting that Sean recommended...still recovering from Thanksgiving and travelling.

I must thank you for providing the 6402 speakers to me years ago when I got my 2x12 combo modded by Mark. One thing is for sure, the 6402 speakers seem to be absolutely critical and I'm super grateful that you had them!

[jape88]

Glad you are happy with them Allen. Worth giving the 4ohm a shot.