EVH Early Brown Sound Attempt with Bray Marshall

[garbeaj]

The Bray amps are great. As has been said, I've never heard a bad one. The tone here is a bit closer to WACF for me...which is great! The Chelsea demos are great too, she's a great player. I love my Mod 5, but the Bray amps with a 4 x12 and 6402 Greenbacks is an amazing set up.

The fact that Sean used PAF style pickups in these clips is another clue that it is possible that Ed used a Super 70 in the Holmes Destroyer for WACF...

[Sean_McFly]

The Bray amps are great. As has been said, I've never heard a bad one. The tone here is a bit closer to WACF for me...which is great! The Chelsea demos are great too, she's a great player. I love my Mod 5, but the Bray amps with a 4 x12 and 6402 Greenbacks is an amazing set up.

The fact that Sean used PAF style pickups in these clips is another clue that it is possible that Ed used a Super 70 in the Homes Destroyer for WACF...

Hey dude, I'm glad you liked the clip and saw some WACF similarities in my tone! I totally agree with you on the continuous winning streak Bray has with his work (I certainly haven't heard a bad Bray yet myself, either)!! All the demos of his amps are awesome, and my personal favorites are of Thorny from this awesome forum! And yeah the Bray through classic or vintage UK greenbacks is truly magical! Yeah Ed probably used a super 70 in the WACF destroyer (I know I'm putting a Bare Knuckles VH II or a Gibson Classic '57 in my basswood LTD EX-50 soon partly for that reason haha)

BTW I've seen your "Hot for Teacher" vid on Youtube, and it's by far one of the best I've ever seen for the 1984 tone ! Your Mod 5 really screams and sounds super big for a combo! BTW I believe we've discussed the Bray/Rockstah stuff on Youtube before on your HFT video (my username's TheTorque5Channel, and yes I've learned how to get a punchier sound out of my Bray since that vid on YT, as you can see)!

[garbeaj]

Very cool! Tones are getting better and better...keep tweaking and keep practicing man!

[Sean_McFly]

Very cool! Tones are getting better and better...keep tweaking and keep practicing man!

Thanks dude! I definitely will! I'm sure if I come across some serious cash, an mxr 6 band, a boss GE-10, a vintage or EVH flanger and phase 90, a vintage Echoplex unit (or a very versatile delay pedal, maybe pigtronix?), and a mahogany, korina, or northern ash franky-style guitar with a PAF are on the wish list, although I'm pretty happy with my setup now lol ! Keep up the awesome brown sounds, and don't forget, David Bray can do killer bluesbreaker combo and 2061x mods

[Sean_McFly]

Whats the amp look like inside?

Hey dude, as much as I'd love to answer that, I'm still pretty new to owning a Marshall and haven't gotten around to opening it up yet! Plus, when you buy a Bray, you take a sacred oath to not show inside pics of it to anyone hahaha Thonry can probably vouch for that It comes with the "thank you" note when you get your amp. I got mine second hand, but with all the Documents, etc. I can show you pics of my greenbacks if you're interested, because unlike most GB's, they have a blackback cover, but I think that's just because they were those rare few that got black covers because the factory was out of green ones I know that they didn't make blackbacks until the mid 70's c.1976, and my speakers are all original g12m's from 1972, so they're a semi mystery, but they sure do sound like Greenbacks!

[Tone Slinger]

Great tone you get there Sean ! I have heard some of your youtube clips(torque), and think you definately have an ear (and hands) for the old Ed stuff. You know where, how and when, to articulate that certain Ed-tone.

I agree with everyone about the Bray mod1 spec. All of them that I've heard sound great, no doubt about it.
Even if Ed simply variaced and dimed his main top, etc, etc (which is what he pretty much did), there is ALWAYS gonna be that urge by players, ESPECIALLY players who can PLAY and BUILD, to squeeze out that extra little bit of gain and compression that Ed got back then, which is SO elusive using a stock top.

To make an analogy, I will say that Ed's vintage sound is the LINE drawn. The very BEST of the stock and/or attenuated super lead clips I've heard (Strat78,Pete Thorn, Efraser) are right BELOW that line, in terms of gain, compression and sizzle, and ALL the 'modded' clips I've heard (particuarly of the Mod5 and Bray Mod1) are right ABOVE the line. Does that make sense ? The 'feel' or 'openess', 'airiness', etc, etc, are subjective, concerning how cascades or channel jumpering sounds in comparison to cranked stock, but the GAIN and sizzle is much easier to decipher, regarding Ed's old tone imo. The only VH album that sounds fairly 'stock' cranked super lead imo is VHII. Take the album before VHII (VHI) and after (WACF), and you get more hair and compression than a stock super lead. It seems that only Ed was able to get a 'stock' plexi to do that. Certain tricks (cascade,PPIMV or jumpering) certainly gives one a certain headstart.

The clips of Efraser (mod5), Thorny (Bray Mod1 plus, Sean McFly (Bray Mod1) get to the goods in slightly different ways, but both are still basically VERY VERY simple 1959/1987 circuits.

[Sean_McFly]

Great tone you get there Sean ! I have heard some of your youtube clips(torque), and think you definately have an ear (and hands) for the old Ed stuff. You know where, how and when, to articulate that certain Ed-tone.

I agree with everyone about the Bray mod1 spec. All of them that I've heard sound great, no doubt about it.
Even if Ed simply variaced and dimed his main top, etc, etc (which is what he pretty much did), there is ALWAYS gonna be that urge by players, ESPECIALLY players who can PLAY and BUILD, to squeeze out that extra little bit of gain and compression that Ed got back then, which is SO elusive using a stock top.

To make an analogy, I will say that Ed's vintage sound is the LINE drawn. The very BEST of the stock and/or attenuated super lead clips I've heard (Strat78,Pete Thorn, Efraser) are right BELOW that line, in terms of gain, compression and sizzle, and ALL the 'modded' clips I've heard (particuarly of the Mod5 and Bray Mod1) are right ABOVE the line. Does that make sense ? The 'feel' or 'openess', 'airiness', etc, etc, are subjective, concerning how cascades or channel jumpering sounds in comparison to cranked stock, but the GAIN and sizzle is much easier to decipher, regarding Ed's old tone imo. The only VH album that sounds fairly 'stock' cranked super lead imo is VHII. Take the album before VHII (VHI) and after (WACF), and you get more hair and compression than a stock super lead. It seems that only Ed was able to get a 'stock' plexi to do that. Certain tricks (cascade,PPIMV or jumpering) certainly gives one a certain headstart.

The clips of Efraser (mod5), Thorny (Bray Mod1 plus, Sean McFly (Bray Mod1) get to the goods in slightly different ways, but both are still basically VERY VERY simple 1959/1987 circuits.

Hey dude thanks for the kind words!! I'm glad you like my phrasing ! It's taken me a while to pick it up, but it's so worth it hahaha! I agree with you 100% on this one! There's so many levels to Ed's tone, and it's all due to that one factor: no two plexis are alike! And yeah although EVH was able to get his tone with a stock plexi, it's still a good idea to get a plexi modded to a spec similar to EVH's (because we all can't afford the 12XXX series or SL68 hahaha) if you're looking for that classic brown sound! The best part about the modded Brays and Mod5's are that if you want less gain, you can turn the volume down on the front, whereas with a stock plexi, if you want more gain, your kinda outa luck unless you want to make another huge purchase for a clean boost pedal or a transparent OD pedal. But in the end, everyone's perfect brown sound is different! We all just need to go with what our ears like the best, because that's what's important: loving your sound so much that you just can't help but play! And that's also partially where Ed's phrasing comes from: his undeniable love of his signature tone

[Thorny]

I just wanna be clear that none of my clips were in plus mode.

[Sean_McFly]

I just wanna be clear that none of my clips were in plus mode.

Wow, cool! I love how the Mod1 setting is the perfect amount of gain for early VH tones!

[Sean_McFly]

For those who requested it, here's a clip of my LP and Bray plexi doing a Dry brown sound (no reverb). I did mostly old VH club riffs to make the dry tone sound more brown lol! I may have played "I wanna be Your Lover" wrong hahaha! Enjoy the tone!
This clip is with post EQ'ing
https://soundcloud.com/sean_mcfly/evh-lp-dry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And this is without
https://soundcloud.com/sean_mcfly/evh-lp-dry-no-eq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fivecoyote]

Very nice! David Bray's stuff has always sounded killer to my ears.

[Tone Slinger]

Thats a PARTICUARLY great sounding Bray Marshall. Build you a vintage 6 screw tremelo/hard ash/maple neck strat and you could get scary close to Ed's Franky sound with that set up. The Paul does the Destroyer stuff real well, but isnt bright or 'boingy' enough to cover the Franky stuff. DO NOT put a floyd on a strat for early Van Halen Franky tone ('77 through VHII) or you will lose that boingy twang, like what Ed gets in the part on 'Light Up the Sky' where he rolls his volume down and steps on the phase 90, "Ooh mama , see the fire Light". You play that on a floyd guitar and it sounds stiff & lifeless.

Anyways, you got the feel and chops and guitars that cover the Destroyer and Floyd Rose era of Ed-tone. Build you a KNe Hard Ash Franky (6 screw tremelo). After that, you would pretty much wouldnt have anywhere else to go...... Cause you would BE THERE !

[Sean_McFly]

Thats a PARTICUARLY great sounding Bray Marshall. Build you a vintage 6 screw tremelo/hard ash/maple neck strat and you could get scary close to Ed's Franky sound with that set up. The Paul does the Destroyer stuff real well, but isnt bright or 'boingy' enough to cover the Franky stuff. DO NOT put a floyd on a strat for early Van Halen Franky tone ('77 through VHII) or you will lose that boingy twang, like what Ed gets in the part on 'Light Up the Sky' where he rolls his volume down and steps on the phase 90, "Ooh mama , see the fire Light". You play that on a floyd guitar and it sounds stiff & lifeless.

Anyways, you got the feel and chops and guitars that cover the Destroyer and Floyd Rose era of Ed-tone. Build you a KNe Hard Ash Franky (6 screw tremelo). After that, you would pretty much wouldnt have anywhere else to go...... Cause you would BE THERE !

Yeah it's one of his early mods, plus it's a 100 watter going through a set of really nice vintage '72 Greenbacks, so that always helps

And I have a few questions about the KnE franky. I was considering assembling/customizing a VHI style franky (black n white era) as a project anyway, and I was debating getting just the regular vintage ssH strat style body or the Azusa frank body which is a bit more money, and the final decision comes down to: should I go with an F-spaced PAF humbucker or a standard spaced HB, and if I get the standard, should I slightly offset it like EVH did with the black n white franky (or does it not really matter tonewise)? Also, what affordable strat-style neck would you recommend for the KnE body, and should I get a brass or graphite nut for it? Finally, what pickup works better in a hard ash body for a clear, articulate, crisp, warm brown-style tone: Bare Knuckles' VH II, Gibson Classic '57, Duncan '59, the Duncan '78, Dimarzio Super Distortion, or something else entirely? I've got my heart set on the BK VH II, but I wanted a few extra opinions on that!

[garbeaj]

I know there are lots of threads here and elsewhere that can give suggestions. I personally don't want to recommend anything as far as electronics because I don't have your amp and can't really say what will be best for it. I can recommend Musikraft for your neck. They accurate and the best necks I have ever seen.

The one thing I can clearly say is that I strongly advise against getting a brass nut. I am of the opinion that Ed used a stock nut on the first album. The "staged" photos from the VH II sessions show the Frankenstein with the brass nut. Every neck that the Frankenstein had after this brief window between the photo sessions for VH I and the recording of VHII did NOT have a brass nut. The Destroyer in the "Shark" phase had a brass nut, but I don't think it was on the guitar for the recording of VHI and was definitely not on it for the club days. I feel like the tone of brass nuts sucks. Just my two cents.

[Sean_McFly]

I know there are lots of threads here and elsewhere that can give suggestions. I personally don't want to recommend anything as far as electronics because I don't have your amp and can't really say what will be best for it. I can recommend Musikraft for your neck. They accurate and the best necks I have ever seen.

The one thing I can clearly say is that I strongly advise against getting a brass nut. I am of the opinion that Ed used a stock nut on the first album. The "staged" photos from the VH II sessions show the Frankenstein with the brass nut. Every neck that the Frankenstein had after this brief window between the photo sessions for VH I and the recording of VHII did NOT have a brass nut. The Destroyer in the "Shark" phase had a brass nut, but I don't think it was on the guitar for the recording of VHI and was definitely not on it for the club days. I feel like the tone of brass nuts sucks. Just my two cents.

Ok thanks for the advice, dude! I had my suspicions about the brass nut anyway lol! I actually made a new topic about the pickup question, so hopefully I'll get a few solid recommendations!