CORRECT REFERANCE FOR BROWN SOUND

[mikefont]

This is the first I've heard of Ask Eddie. Gonna look into this. Really makes me wonder.

The "Ask Eddie" is a feature on the EVH Gear website. You can submit questions to Eddie which he periodically answers, and they post his answers in the news section.

http://evhgear.com/askeddie/


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[jnew]

Well maybe I should give it a try. a

[garbeaj]

I tried it on the day the feature became available...no luck. I asked my burning question: "What was the mystery guitar you used for the "I'll Wait" solo?"...Crickets.

[TWANGGG]

Here is a YouTube video that highlights the vocals and Ed's guitar fills and solo, I had not heard this before. I want to get some more opinions on this because it sounds like the tracks were taken from the masters and are untreated. Unlike the guitar hero iso tracks, listen how in your face Ed's guitar is, without the heavy reverb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bliNA_cCrqM

I finally got around to downloading this and setting it up in my recording software to compare it side by side to the Guitar Hero tracks, VH1, etc. It looks to me like this started out as the GH guitar track, but it's been altered by either using just the left channel, or both left and right combined to mono, panned to center. Mixed like this it really does sound powerful, and may be in the realm of what Eddie was expecting to hear on VH1? Thanks for posting it.

Speaking of the correct referance for the brown sound, while I was playing around with this I was reminded again just how much they messed with the original guitar sound when they mixed the songs for Guitar Hero. Most apparent is they cut the high end fairly drastically which pretty much killed that distinctive VH1 sizzle. They also bumped the upper mids up around 3K which screws up the low end punch compared to VH1. I put this clip together so you guys can hear what I'm talking about:

https://soundcloud.com/twanggg/yrgm-vh1-gh-matched

The clip has three different versions of the YRGM guitar intro. The first time through is off the VH1 CD, second is from Guitar Hero, and last is Guitar Hero again that I've tone matched to sound like VH1. BTW, I noticed that if you click the waveform graphic above the line you can switch quickly between sections to compare.

[STEINBERGER]

Hey twanggg.
I think we are now on the same page. i rest my case your honor!

[TWANGGG]

This clip starts with the original VH2 CD version of the Beautiful Girls intro, then Guitar Hero, and the last section is Guitar Hero tone matched to VH2:

https://soundcloud.com/twanggg/beautifu ... gh-matched

Another good example of how they really messed with the guitar tone when mixing for Guitar Hero, among other things adding a big boost in the upper mids(2k-3K). Sounds pretty bad to me, but there may have been good reasons they made those mixing choices.

I love having all of the GH isos for learning how to play these songs, but digging into this has shown me they're really not very good references for the "brown sound".

[rgorke]

wow the Guitar Hero tracks sound so thin...

getting back to the MXR 6 band. I usually have my 800 lever pretty high ( the highest) then the 1.6k and then 3.2k. the 100, 200, and 400 are pretty low.

[garbeaj]

wow the Guitar Hero tracks sound so thin...

getting back to the MXR 6 band. I usually have my 800 lever pretty high ( the highest) then the 1.6k and then 3.2k. the 100, 200, and 400 are pretty low.

I'm thinking about getting an old blue 6-band...but just to be clear it will probably sound like shit through my Mod 5 and Super Distortion pickup? I'm getting that the noise would be unbearable and I probably wouldn't be happy with the tone. As far as I understand the 6-band should be for use in a lower gain amp and with a lower output P.A.F. style pickup, right?

[jnew]

Correct. If a Mod 5 has a 2203/4 front end (which I believe it does) then that extra gain stage will further up the signal to noise ratio of ole blue, if your boosting with it. When I was on this kick years ago, I would only use the pre-amp on about 3. And there certainly was no need for ole blue to boost. However, you could still use old blue to work the EQ slope without boosting and keep the noise in check, to some degree. There are two key factors with a two stage plexi circuit, in boosting with the old MXR and addressing the noise. One is the Echoplex pre-amp, as there are high and low band pass filters in the original circuit that mitigate the S/N ratio issue. (Actually, it's the low pass filter that addresses the noise). And second, running the amp on a variac is a big reducer. It is my opinion that this is the basis of Ed's club setup which found its way to the early albums.
And there's really no way to know or confirm which songs or which guitars used the MXR. Some things may seem obvious though.

[garbeaj]

Obviously many believe "Eruption" was one of them...still not proveable by any means, but it is certainly possible.

So the 6-band is a no go for the Mod 5.

[jnew]

IMO, only to shape the EQ curve if frequencies don't sound right. But an amp with a pre-amp and master separate (cascaded front end) should not need it for boosting pre-amp gain.

[garbeaj]

IMO, only to shape the EQ curve if frequencies don't sound right. But an amp with a pre-amp and master separate (cascaded front end) should not need it for boosting pre-amp gain.

My Mod 5 seems to have plenty of mid and Mark did not use an EQ with his clips. And I'm never going to get a 100W stack...my 50 W 2 x 12 combo is loud enough and the Mod 5 is delivering what I personally want (passable VH-1 tones at bedroom and small club levels) that I would think I would never have a use for the 6-band.

[jnew]

I would think not.

[Megaro]

TWANGGG, those are some interesting sound clips you put together. I have always been bothered by the tone on the VH 2 Guitar Hero guitar ISO clips. They seem very thin as opposed to the other ablum's ISO tracks.

As for the correct reference for the brown sound, I think it is whatever album you like the sound of Alex's snare drum the best

[matttornado]

Yes and no. VH I has different gains structures from song to song if you're really listening.

I think some people fail to realize that Ed uses his volume control a lot. Some songs I'm sure he had the guitar volume all the way up and on others maybe half way. That doesn't necessarily mean he used different gain structures from the amp if that's what you mean?

Like comparing VH1 to VH2. People think VH2 sounds less distorted than the first record. he supposedly used the same gear and set up so maybe he just used the guitar volume more? just my 2 cents. not trying to argue or anything.