Ed's 1978 touring rig.

rgorke · Post by **rgorke** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:47 pm

Are we still arguing about marketing a pedal that didn't exist? Just making sure.

I have been out of town.

whopperplate · Post by **whopperplate** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:51 pm

rgorke wrote:Are we still arguing about marketing a pedal that didn't exist? Just making sure.

I have been out of town.

spaceace76 · Post by **spaceace76** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:54 pm

rgorke wrote:Are we still arguing about marketing a pedal that didn't exist? Just making sure.

I have been out of town.

sorry i went a bit overboard on that one. With all this talk of ripping Ed off and IP theft and on and on I thought it would be helpful to reiterate the ACTUAL laws and how they work, instead of mudslinging.

I'm a bit tired of people crying wolf with this secret pedal nonsense. It seems like the same group is also trying to make the Metro forum appear as though we spread large amounts of disinformation, which I find disrespectful to a high degree, considering all the amazing contributors here. I'm offended by the mere fact that anyone who posts here can complain about cloning and say we post bad info. These fundamentally disagree with this site's very existence.

Why does this site exist? To exchange information related to marshall amps.
Who put it together? A cloner of marshall amps.
If you think Metro hasn't provided people with good info, if you believe that cloning in any form is unethical, you're on the wrong forum.

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:11 pm

spaceace76 wrote: Why does this site exist? To exchange information related to marshall amps.
Who put it together? A cloner of marshall amps.
If you think Metro hasn't provided people with good info, if you believe that cloning in any form is unethical, you're on the wrong forum.

I believe it can be unethical..in Metro's context NO..Because the clone is better than what has been available for decades...

Now if the Modern version of Marshalls flagship product was selling pretty good and you clone that ..I think that's unethical...moving in on someone elses intellectual property till they have expeneded it.

Seriously if your smart enough to resurrect something that has fallen thru the cracks over the decades and you think it would be a boon to guitar mankind ..go ahead knock yerself out.

So cloning can be a good thing ..it can be an unethical thing too.

spaceace76 · Post by **spaceace76** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:41 pm

to me it only gets unethical when a certain case happens. Analog Mike has spoken about this a few times. He shares with and helps the DIY community on occasion (if i recall correctly, since he makes so many sunfaces and they are dead nuts FF clones, you can send him a SASE and $1 and you'll get a sunface PCB back in the mail) and has noticed the issue that when people hear a clone of his pedal, he doesn't know what has been changed (or cloned inaccurately) and so instead of taking the time to seek out the real deal, a potential customer may discount his work based solely on hearing a clone.

This is something of a form of brand dilution, but legally speaking all you can do is force cloners to add words like "derivative of" or "based upon" before mentioning the cloned circuit. Moreover, the problem is mostly born from natural human laziness and ignorance, and if we could legislate either of those away then the world would be a 10,000% better place to live....

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:04 pm

spaceace76 wrote:to me it only gets unethical when a certain case happens. Analog Mike has spoken about this a few times. He shares with and helps the DIY community on occasion (if i recall correctly, since he makes so many sunfaces and they are dead nuts FF clones, you can send him a SASE and $1 and you'll get a sunface PCB back in the mail) and has noticed the issue that when people hear a clone of his pedal, he doesn't know what has been changed (or cloned inaccurately) and so instead of taking the time to seek out the real deal, a potential customer may discount his work based solely on hearing a clone.

This is something of a form of brand dilution, but legally speaking all you can do is force cloners to add words like "derivative of" or "based upon" before mentioning the cloned circuit. Moreover, the problem is mostly born from natural human laziness and ignorance, and if we could legislate either of those away then the world would be a 10,000% better place to live....

Well that someone would make a clone of a sunface when they can make a clone of a real fuzz face is kinda wierd ..why clone a clone ..of course in the process of making the fuzz face and tuning it up they put in trimpots and presto a clone of a clone.

The fuzzface was a text book current shunt amp anyways ..so i guess the sunface is a clone of a clone..change one part and it's a new beast...a derivative of a clone of a clone

So anybody know how to make taco time salsa sauce? I would like to clone that...

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:45 am

Rev. William does like Mike's work and owns, to my knowledge, at least a ½ doz. versions of the Sunface...

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:36 am

JimiJames wrote:Rev. William does like Mike's work and owns, to my knowledge, at least a ½ doz. versions of the Sunface...

And I bet he sure knows how to make that taco sauce too....

"Gibbons is also well known for his authentic preparations of Texas-style barbecue and Mexican cuisine and is frequently a guest chef around Hollywood, California serving his famous "Renegade Guacamole".

I can see him with sunfaces and adding a front end buffer to make them like the suppafuzz's he likes .... many versions of the suppafuzz but one version is actually a fuzzface with an input buffer....excellent for the harmonics that Rev. Williams likes.

But like EVH he too has his secret box

and there are NO pics of it anywhere and it is the rareset fuzz ever.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:45 pm

Man I'd love to sample some of that ! If it's any good, you should be farting fire ballz !

GG wasn't his a RangeMaster ? Quite a few used it to my knowledge. Some in combonation with a Maestro... Page Beck E.C. Blackmore...

('78 When I seen them appearing for the first time in Chicago, opening up for Jorney/Montrose, I mostly remember lots of harmonics and whammy wizardry, a kool ass Atomic Bomb with flashing lights and thinking..."Who is this guy ?"
IMO history will show, with his latest endeavor, puts him infront of Jimi and is without a doubt

They should seal that with their next LP of original material. Would love to hear Mikes voice on a few. I know, wishful thinking.)

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:26 pm

JimiJames wrote:Man I'd love to sample some of that ! If it's any good, you should be farting fire ballz !

GG wasn't his a RangeMaster ? Quite a few used it to my knowledge. Some in combonation with a Maestro... Page Beck E.C. Blackmore...

('78 When I seen them appearing for the first time in Chicago, opening up for Jorney/Montrose, I mostly remember lots of harmonics and whammy wizardry, a kool ass Atomic Bomb with flashing lights and thinking..."Who is this guy ?"
IMO history will show, with his latest endeavor, puts him infront of Jimi and is without a doubt
They should seal that with their next LP of original material. Would love to hear Mikes voice on a few. I know, wishful thinking.)

Never missed a ZZ top concert no matter what city I lived in .He is a connoisseur of fuzz. and is known to scoop up suppa fuzz's back in the day...I will tell you this one time only ..I did happen to repair a fuzz once (90's) for the Rev..that fuzz does not even appear on internet search's it's so rare an old

Yep another tone secret to take to the grave

Now you see that's ethics

spaceace76 · Post by **spaceace76** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:23 pm

Gibbons is the biggest gear hoarder alive. He owns multiples of anything he has... just because you saw one pedal doesn't mean much. besides, PG did a rig rundown not too long ago. his tone secrets are all out of the bag

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:50 pm

spaceace76 wrote:Gibbons is the biggest gear hoarder alive. He owns multiples of anything he has... just because you saw one pedal doesn't mean much. besides, PG did a rig rundown not too long ago. his tone secrets are all out of the bag

That rig rundown was a farce...you probably believe he actually played a tree of expandoras too.

Funny thing was the pedal was eliminator tone only and alll of it. PG did a gear rundown

..

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:06 pm

Good Guest wrote:
spaceace76 wrote:Gibbons is the biggest gear hoarder alive. He owns multiples of anything he has... just because you saw one pedal doesn't mean much. besides, PG did a rig rundown not too long ago. his tone secrets are all out of the bag
That rig rundown was a farce...you probably believe he actually played a tree of expandoras too. Funny thing was the pedal was eliminator tone only and alll of it. PG did a gear rundown ..

He actually did use a tree of Expandoras at one time. I have lived in Houston since 1986 and I actually played a guitar of his that had an Expandora built into the body of the guitar (I've even had lunch with Gibbons and one of my techs who did some work for Gibbons occasionally)...but the thing is he has completely different tones on different recordings...different guitars, different pickups, different everything at the drop of a hat. His tone secrets are never going to be out of the bag. Billy Gibbons is THE tone chaser...

jnewlyn · Post by **jnewlyn** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:47 am

Fuck, what a long day reading these 32 pages. Lots of view points, theories, expressions and so on. Also, lots of directions to experiment. And so we shall.

But, one key thing I've taken away from all this is the mention of the hiss being so incredible. This could be a great testament to at least one of the Ep-3's having a compressor board it. As of late and with my compressor board now working now, the hiss is now an issue whereas before, not really a big deal. Sure, there's some hiss with the 6 band into the EP-3 type pre-amp circuit into a loud amp but not really too excessive at all. I'm going more and more to the belief that this is the missing link. It's the little things like the pick slides, the feedback at the end of "Atomic Punk" and some of the accents with the flanger on "On Fire". Those are just some of the blazing examples of where I'm hearing some serious compression. I mentioned in the other thread about the compression maybe a bit too much or too hard. Makes me kind of wonder it the story of the lower output, AlNiCo II pickup wouldn't hit as hard and get so compressed, as opposed to the DSD.

Either way guys, this compressor thing has to be put to the test IMO.

Marshall SL12301 · Post by **Marshall SL12301** » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:54 pm

eddie MAY HAVE used the alnico II for the 78 tour and VH II but the record is definitely not alnico II.

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