Super Distortion rocks! (MkII)

[Tone Slinger]

I agree. You can really hear that part (the bending style) on Ed's two guitars (Franky and Destroyer). I mean, if the action isnt TOO low you can get at those bends on even a 7 1/4 radius neck,, though by looking at pic's I'd wager that the rosewood board neck on the all black Franky had about like a modern Fender type radius, which alot of 'copy' brands and after market 'parts' companies from that time would have been doing (about a 9 - 10 radius).

Besides, the way Ed had his strat set up, any bend over a step would have sent any note on his fretboard 'flat'. Ed would always dip the bar into a wang lick after any bending exceeding a step.

It's been discussed here by alot of us as to how Ed kept his vintage tremelo in tune. Well..... HE DIDNT ! Ed not only used the bar for the SAKE of using it. He used it because HE HAD TOO, in order to keep in tune.


Ed was dipping into those little bar dips and dives constantly , because otherwise the unwound 'bending' strings were gonna be flat. I have 3 guitars with this vintage style set up and its a trade off. Original type tone BUT a big PAIN IN THE ASS !

[rgorke]

because otherwise the unwound 'bending' strings were gonna be flat. I have 3 guitars with this vintage style set up and its a trade off. Original type tone BUT a big PAIN IN THE ASS !

Dang, I thought it was just me and I have been doing something wrong all along.

[Tone Slinger]

Everytime I get used to setting up a vintage 6 screw tremelo and settle in for a while, I pick up my Warmoth that has a floyd. After playing it for awhile with all it's 'IN TUNENESS', I go then go back to my 6 screw vintage and all of a sudden I'm like "Damn this thing just wont stay in tune!" Though I had been happy and used to it before.

I sum this up to the fact that IF you are used to using a Floyd Rose and apply the way you play it to a vintage tremelo, then you will get bad results.

I sometimes go months without really playing my Warmoth (Floyd Rose) so I settle into the vintage tremelo. I have just recently completed almost every mod (well that I've heard of or came up with) known to man, and can say that there will alway's be the 'flat' aspect with a vintage style tremelo, though the LESS the strings ball end goes past the saddles friction point,, the better.

A 'grooved' saddle type (like on the high end Gotoh's etc) might be of use, as the saddles are the ONLY thing I havent tried. The tone would probably be affected somewhat though,,,, but hey tuning is SO important !

[dirtycooter]

I tried the newer ernie ball traditional style trem. It actually stays in tune really well.
But, its straight string pull to the tunin pegs, more consistent angle on all strings over the nut, locking tuners staggered also, no string tree or bar retainer. Its more vintage strat sound than a floyd.
But, I love my floyd and don't feel I miss much tonally at all really. I really don't hear as much difference between a floyd and tunomatic though as I do a tuno to a vintage fender bridge.
Its preference, how much work you wanna make yourself, how much you need to get crazy with the bar, its all subjective.
I hate tuning up. Anything that keeps me from doin that less is much appreciated. I wanna rock, not spend all my time tuning you know, but thats just me.
I will make a note though when dumping the bar on a fender and floyd the initial beginning of the drop is different at its start.
The floyd just drops straight down, the fender sometimes sounds like it almost slightly goes up in pitch a wee bit before detuning and its drop isn't as even on each string where some detune different amounts more.
But for the sake of all out authenticity for nailin a tone, I think we have all come to the conclusion here nothing will cop a sound better than using everything as closely to exact as how it was originally done.
Speakers, the amp kits here, etc. all designed to be as close to original as possible. Its up to the individual in the end what things they allow to be, passed over or accepted as a deviation, as far as tone quality goes. I can live with my floyd as one of those exceptions.

Sometimes you just gotta pick your battles whats more important, to me bein outta tune sounds completely unprofessional more than that bridge is gonna make me sound lol!

[nitro]

There is more then Eds pickup(mighty mite-Dimarzio super distortion)that achieved the van halen 1 sound,the dimarzio SD or the mighty mite would not be enough alone to achieve the distortion that Ed achieved on van halen 1,look at all the guitarist back then that used the dimarzio super distortion and the mighty mite pickup,none of them sounded like Ed,did Ed use those pickup,yes,but there is more to that,remember jose explaining to me,overdrive-distortion unit was used to achieve THAT sound I dont know way people dont take that into consideration,but people believe guys that worked on Eds gear in the 90s,

[azazael]

Well imo the Jose 'pedal' is really just bullshit to throw us all off the scent again in true Ed fashion however that time via proxy.

Seriously just listen to Ralle and his SD and his marshall...


What you have to realise also is that although many of them used Marshall and SD combo they never approached the guitar or the amp like Ed. None of them ran the amp flat out like Ed. Even if you listen to perhaps the most famous Super Distortion player of all time Ace Frehley you're going to hear very little gain (and some awful guitar playing) and thats simply just because they really only turned up as loud as they needed to.
The Marshalls were all slightly different animals to one another back then as well so it was really luck of the draw.

I very highly doubt any overdrive/distortion box was used on VH1 as the majority of them back then always sounded like complete shit and very noticeably unnatural.

[spaceace76]

There is more then Eds pickup(mighty mite-Dimarzio super distortion)that achieved the van halen 1 sound,the dimarzio SD or the mighty mite would not be enough alone to achieve the distortion that Ed achieved on van halen 1,look at all the guitarist back then that used the dimarzio super distortion and the mighty mite pickup,none of them sounded like Ed,did Ed use those pickup,yes,but there is more to that,remember jose explaining to me,overdrive-distortion unit was used to achieve THAT sound I dont know way people dont take that into consideration,but people believe guys that worked on Eds gear in the 90s,

probably because you're the only person who says it, because you don't know what circuit it is, and because you go into many threads to mention it regardless of the actual topic.

no offense meant but it tends to put people off. if you want to talk about the possibilities of such a pedal you should probably start your own topics. just sayin'...

[ZeroCool]

In the YRGM solo you can hear those chirps. Those chirps come from the high e string coming in contact with the pickup polepieces. So that would mean that EVH had his ceramic pickup really close to the string in order to get those chirps correct? But having a DSD/Ceramic pickup so close to the strings are kinda of strange?

[nitro]

Spaceace,im not the only one that believes that(overdrive-distortion unit) many amp builders-techs do, people who know marshall plexis,and know them well,such as Doug Roccaforte,Ozzie at Blockhead(which he now works for 3-Monkey)and others I dont need to list all of them,they know that no stock cranked plexi can achieve that type of distortion, even using a variac or a high output pickups or a master volume wouldnt matter,pickups do help to a extent, People need to go back and listen to Van halen 1 and then compare it to some of the clips that are here and on other sites and hear what is missing.

[Ed Hunter]

In the YRGM solo you can hear those chirps. Those chirps come from the high e string coming in contact with the pickup polepieces. So that would mean that EVH had his ceramic pickup really close to the string in order to get those chirps correct? But having a DSD/Ceramic pickup so close to the strings are kinda of strange?

he used the destroyer on that track and it probably had the stock super 70 which would explain why he had it set close to the strings. a super 70 is a lower output pu than a DSD

[Ed Hunter]

What you have to realise also is that although many of them used Marshall and SD combo they never approached the guitar or the amp like Ed. None of them ran the amp flat out like Ed. Even if you listen to perhaps the most famous Super Distortion player of all time Ace Frehley you're going to hear very little gain (and some awful guitar playing) and thats simply just because they really only turned up as loud as they needed to.
The Marshalls were all slightly different animals to one another back then as well so it was really luck of the draw.

yeah like the shock me solo on kiss alive II. ace is playing with everything on 5 and a DSD in his LP and it has some decent OD to the tone but if you times that by two then thats what ed played VH I on. a marshall on 10 with a dsd will give amazing gain.

I think VH I is ed with a DSD,a good marshall on 10, the magic of templeton and landee, the studio itself as well was a big part of that tone ed got on VHI which explains why he NEVER got it live or ever again period. didn't eddie say the ted made the tone sound like more than it really was?

[spaceace76]

Spaceace,im not the only one that believes that(overdrive-distortion unit) many amp builders-techs do, people who know marshall plexis,and know them well,such as Doug Roccaforte,Ozzie at Blockhead(which he now works for 3-Monkey)and others I dont need to list all of them,they know that no stock cranked plexi can achieve that type of distortion, even using a variac or a high output pickups or a master volume wouldnt matter,pickups do help to a extent, People need to go back and listen to Van halen 1 and then compare it to some of the clips that are here and on other sites and hear what is missing.

even the biggest geniuses and golden eared folk can be wrong. the better opinion by numbers approach doesn't bring you closer to any truth. i listen to VH1 on a daily basis and am very familiar with the sound. I think you missed the point of my earlier post, and should read it again.

[Ed Hunter]

Just sayin, didnt ed ALWAYS despise any OD box from day one? if he did use one it is the best OD unit i ever heard!

[spaceace76]

yes in fact if you really think about it the prospect of the VH1 sound being produced from 70's stompbox technology is like finding the holy grail in a wal-mart

what have stompbox designers been trying to do since they started becoming popular? oh right capture authentic tube amp sounds like Ed's in a little box... there are lots of great sounding units in this category, even from back then, and many have come close but nobody has designed anything solid state yet that perfectly emulates tube sound. hence why people go for old marshalls and high output pickups, it's just pure tone.

[JimiJames]

Right on Space.
How may people to include myself always wondered what Ed used to get this new sound. I saw VH at the Aragon "Brawl" Room in '78 opening for Journey & Ronnie Montrose. Introduced as their first appearance hit the stage with that rocket ship and WHAM. I said who is this fuckin' band ? lol Man the guitar player is good but, what's with this guy with the Robert Plant look
After that I started hearing them on the radio and remember where I was the first time I heard Eruption
(in the classroom Sophomore year) and really listening to just Ed after that live performance. For most it's the other way around : Hear music on radio - go see band.
I just started playing guitar then. I would listen to my older guitar heroes; myself having a Marshall JMP half stack a Strat & a LPC and being into pedals at the time trying closely to match their sound (except Blackmore & Page's honk).
So, now I hear his studio work and I'm scheming to find a pedal or combination there of to sound like Ed... eh, futile.
It was way later I learned and heard about modded amps. I always thought it was a pedal I was looking for but little did I know.
I was 17 then...
Besides vintage Fenders.. Marshall is the BEST amp of all time and is MY voice of choice.
The more knowledge of amp building I get the more I understand Ed's sound. I have shitloads to learn and for me a slow process besides other things on my plate but, I will never give up... I WILL NEVER SURRENDER !

ehh, so you're saying I can get this pedal at wal-mart ? Awesome !