Van Halen Tuning with Peterson Reference

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:06 am

I take it you are a tech? I would imagine that you have a Peterson strobe tuner? If so, which model do you have?

I'm getting a complete refret on my '75 Ibanez Destroyer...installing a new white Tusq XL nut and getting stainless steel frets...and once my tech finishes that project I'll post revised tunings for the Destroyer tracks from the Van Halen album using the variable cent reference feature on my Peterson StroboPlus HD. (If you look at my notes from earlier in the thread you will see that I was using my Peterson StroboClip which does not have a variable cent reference)...

Thanks for taking the time to check out my findings! It is great to know that other people "get" what I'm talking about! This just seems like such a fundamental thing to "get" and I can't believe no one else has done this yet!

Skoorb · Post by **Skoorb** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:09 pm

Some people call me a tech - I have decided that I like calling myself a guitarsmith since lutes don´t really do anything for me. I am currently using a StroboStomp (that I had to basically rebuild) and a few different Seiko tuners. I used to have a 490 that I sold when I was moving back to the States in ´04. The Strobostomp has 2 presets but I generally use a Seiko that I own that displays cents in real time. It is also plenty accurate if you know how to use a tuner. Hopefully I will have a chance to get some time in with your presets soon.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:14 pm

My tunings are notated using Peterson's exclusive "Sweetened GTR" setting which will cause my notations to be off if you are using the Seiko rather than the Peterson. Does the StroboStomp have a variable cent capability?

Skoorb · Post by **Skoorb** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:51 pm

I want to be certain I understand you - are you saying that your base tuning is the GTR preset and you are adjusting from there ? Or are you saying something different ? Also, we have to be clear about how you are intonating - EQU or something else ? The Strobostomp has the ability to make two presets with whatever offsets in cents that you want. The GTR sweetened tuning is fairly straightforward if I need to adjust from there to achieve your offsets.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:33 pm

Skoorb wrote:I want to be certain I understand you - are you saying that your base tuning is the GTR preset and you are adjusting from there ? Or are you saying something different ? Also, we have to be clear about how you are intonating - EQU or something else ? The Strobostomp has the ability to make two presets with whatever offsets in cents that you want. The GTR sweetened tuning is fairly straightforward if I need to adjust from there to achieve your offsets.

Yes, the "Sweetened GTR" setting is the base and adjust the cents as I have indicated. The only song that I have cent variations on so far is "Girl Gone Bad" which is +14 cents up from standard tuning using the "Sweetened GTR" setting. When I get my Destroyer back I'll note the cent values for the other tunings I posted earlier using the StroboClip without cent references. I'll grab my Kramer and use the StroboPlus HD to note the cent values for "Panama". Eventually I'll present the cent values for all the tunings I posted earlier in this thread and I'll start adding more...

Skoorb · Post by **Skoorb** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:16 am

And how were you intonating - using EQU or ??? The last thing I haven´t asked is what string guage you using.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:04 am

Skoorb wrote:And how were you intonating - using EQU or ??? The last thing I haven´t asked is what string guage you using.

My tech does the intonation, but he was using an older Peterson from the late 70s. It was probably the equivalent of the EQU setting. I use standard Fender 150XL's on the Flying V-.009, .011, .015, .024, .032 and .040.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:00 pm

I finally got my Destroyer back from getting stainless steel frets and a new white Tusq XL nut installed...$400 later...and now I can start posting cent value offsets for the songs from the first album that use the Destroyer to update the tunings I found earlier in this thread.

First up is "You Really Got Me":

High E: +25.5 cents from Eb
......B: +23.0 cents from Bb
......G: +23.0 cents from F#
......D: +25.5 cents from Db
......A: +25.5 cents from Ab
-Low E: +23.0 cents from Eb

Again, the base setting on the Peterson StroboPlus HD is the Sweetened GTR setting. String gauges are the same as what I posted above for my Flying V...a standard .009 set.

dirtycooter · Post by **dirtycooter** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:48 am

Always use EQU for intonation. Then once that is done you can go to sweetened. One sets up the guitar the other tunes it.
Whether its an old vintage or brand new digital the results will be identical with petersons from old or new. The intonation method they suggest at peterson is awesome and works out the bugs fast when intonating. I use that plus the fretted 12fret against the open harmonic when intonating. The two methods expose things differently and working between them you can really get it right. If you spend a half hour 2 times year like fall and spring or anytime you tweak truss rod or bridge adjustments it keeps things pretty tight. Intonation is so important to the results. Without proper intonation it won't matter how sweetened or accurate the tuner is. That will all go out the window entirely. Humidity and dryness moves things as well pretty fast. If you go from the artic to the jungle-things start walkin off in bad directions. Perform the intonation when climates get extreme no matter how relative the indoor temp is regulated consistently. Summer and winter raises hell with all my guitars everytime. Mid stretch of every season is good time to intonate. Or again when moving from one climate/humidity change to another.
Actually do the intonation, give it 5 or 7 days, then check it again. Do not be suprised if something changed Necks do move sometimes when you just intonated in few days. Eds tech does it before every show. While thats pretty extreme and definitly over kill seemingly, there is a reason for it.

Especially when he goes from places like Arizona to Florida in week.
Even changing to a fresh set of strings of the same type will be different at times. Strings can and do have quirks and can behave irregularly. One time I had a sting that would not stay intonated. I tweak tweak tweak and it would not stay tweaked. Changed that string out and it was fine. Happens from time to time. Every other year I will run into a turd like this once at least.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:02 pm

dirtycooter wrote:Always use EQU for intonation. Then once that is done you can go to sweetened. One sets up the guitar the other tunes it.
Whether its an old vintage or brand new digital the results will be identical with petersons from old or new. The intonation method they suggest at peterson is awesome and works out the bugs fast when intonating. I use that plus the fretted 12fret against the open harmonic when intonating. The two methods expose things differently and working between them you can really get it right. If you spend a half hour 2 times year like fall and spring or anytime you tweak truss rod or bridge adjustments it keeps things pretty tight. Intonation is so important to the results. Without proper intonation it won't matter how sweetened or accurate the tuner is. That will all go out the window entirely. Humidity and dryness moves things as well pretty fast. If you go from the artic to the jungle-things start walkin off in bad directions. Perform the intonation when climates get extreme no matter how relative the indoor temp is regulated consistently. Summer and winter raises hell with all my guitars everytime. Mid stretch of every season is good time to intonate. Or again when moving from one climate/humidity change to another.
Actually do the intonation, give it 5 or 7 days, then check it again. Do not be suprised if something changed Necks do move sometimes when you just intonated in few days. Eds tech does it before every show. While thats pretty extreme and definitly over kill seemingly, there is a reason for it.
Especially when he goes from places like Arizona to Florida in week.
Even changing to a fresh set of strings of the same type will be different at times. Strings can and do have quirks and can behave irregularly. One time I had a sting that would not stay intonated. I tweak tweak tweak and it would not stay tweaked. Changed that string out and it was fine. Happens from time to time. Every other year I will run into a turd like this once at least.

Yep, all that you say is true...I would say that the old Peterson tuners did NOT have Sweetened presets, they were just analog strobe tuners and they couldn't tune in any other way than the equivalent of the "EQU" setting. I do agree that you would use the "EQU" setting to intonate (as my techs did when they set up my Destroyer after the stainless steel fret job and new nut) and then I tune the guitars using the Sweetened GTR preset.

There are indeed bad strings that come straight out of the package as defective. It happened way more often than one would think, but it does occur just as you said. No telling when it will strike, but changing the string is the only thing that can be done to deal with this very occasional problem.

So have you tried any of the offsets I have posted? Does your Peterson have the adjustable cent reference feature?

dirtycooter · Post by **dirtycooter** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:49 am

Nope. I intonate and just use the sweetened Eb and go.

I see no need to worry or be as concerned about nothing but the strings ringing correctly in harmony at a set relative simple pitch. When that's good its game on for me. Ed don't change all these things playing live for song to song. He sets up one time and goes.
However he did express a change-going from Eb to standard E when hookin up with Hagar due to vocal range of a different singer.
But seeings how this is an extreme tuning thread thought I would throw my nickel in there [inflation-2 cents don't make it these days

]
Have you tried intonating your own stuff? You got the Peterson so that's all you need. Its fairly easy but a pain to take time and do. Read=no fun. This notion that an old school Peterson is better than the new compact digital ones is simply not true though-they are both just as accurate. So accurate it will drive you almost insane as the movement of the earth can show up on it

I just wanted to point out the foundation has to be laid right before any of the other matters for any noobs out there.
There are so many variables depending on how the guitar is built, and set up, to bad strings, to crappy intonation, walking bridges, dicked up frets, finger pressure is huge as well-this section would not be complete without these facts mixed down for the lehman.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:10 pm

dirtycooter wrote:There are so many variables depending on how the guitar is built, and set up, to bad strings, to crappy intonation, walking bridges, dicked up frets, finger pressure is huge as well-this section would not be complete without these facts mixed down for the lehman.

Exactly! Which is why I get my techs to set up my guitars. I can do my own intonation as far as adjusting the saddles is concerned, but for everything else (which is 99% of the factors that cause intonation to go out) I get my techs to do the work.

I would ask that you try the tunings I have posted because you are one of only two other people on this thread that has a Peterson with variable cent references and Sweetened modes. Of course the purpose of this thread is to zero in on the tunings used on the recordings and I know you would enjoy playing along with the recordings and being in tune with them! Again I must repeat that this thread has nothing to do with live tunings.

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:41 pm

Here are the cent value references for the tuning on the album version of "Runnin' With The Devil":

1st string: Eb +17.0 cents
2nd string: Bb +29.0 cents
3rd string: F# +35.0 cents
4th string: C# +35.0 cents
5th string: Ab +35.0 cents
6th string: Eb +29.0 cents

rgorke · Post by **rgorke** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 3:26 pm

I have one of these boys, it should work, no?

garbeaj · Post by **garbeaj** » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:59 pm

The tuner you pictured above will not correspond to the tunings I have posted exactly. As me and dirtycooter had mentioned, you need to intonate your guitars properly using the "EQU" setting on a new Peterson digital strobe tuner like the Peterson StroboPlus HD that I am using or the StroboStomp that dirtycooter has which features the "Sweetened" presets which are calibrated offsets for various instruments. The old style analog Peterson tuners like the one you have pictured here will only give you the equivalent of the "EQU", but they obviously do not have any "Sweetened" pre-sets...in fact there are no pre-sets at all because it is an analog strobe tuner.

The tunings I have notated only relate to the "Sweetened GTR" pre-set which is an exclusive Peterson digital off-set for electric guitars. I've tried to make it clear in all my posts, but I didn't say it in my last post...

The conditions that these tunings will work in:

1. You have a properly set-up and properly intonated guitar. (a guitar can be intonated using the EQU setting on Peterson digital strobe tuners.)

2. You then need a Peterson digital strobe tuner that has a variable cent display (like the Peterson StroboPlus HD) and then tune accordingly using the "Sweetened GTR" pre-set.

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