The Best Thing To Learn In Order To Play Like Ed

[rgalpin]

hmmm... I would start these patterns with an upstroke. am i alone in that?

Hey Rob. You are probably not alone in that, but let me see if I can explain why I don't do it that way, and more importantly, why I think Ed doesn't.

so, my point / question / comment is i was surprised to see that lick starting with a down stroke

The reason I believe Ed and Eric started these licks with a downstroke was how they were being used. For instance, let's look at the second lick (Lick 2).

This lick is played 5 times consecutively by Clapton in the cadenza. Here it is written out two times in a row:

Sitting On Top Of The World (cadenza) - Lick 2 - twice

--------------H----P----------------------H----P-------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
B---15---15---18---15---------15---15---18---15----------
G--------------------------17--------------------------17----
D--------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U----------------U----D----U----------------U----
---------------------------|-LINK-|---------------------------



If you tried doing it your way, it would look like the following:

Sitting On Top Of The World (cadenza) - Lick 2 - twice - rgalpin

--------------H----P----------------------H----P-------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
B---15---15---18---15---------15---15---18---15----------
G--------------------------17--------------------------17----
D--------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
-----U----D----------------U----U----D----------------U----
---------------------------|-LINK-|---------------------------

Do you see the link between the licks? I believe doing it your way would mean using two upstrokes in a row or having to switch to my down - up - down pattern in order to play them consecutively. In addition, Clapton played Lick 1 and Lick 2 consecutively, so you run into the same problem. Ed routinely combined these patterns in multiple ways to create whole new licks, but the concept was always the same.

I say give it another try with this in mind and let us know how you do. Allen is right to say that once you get this down, a whole slew of Ed's licks make sense and become much easier to play.

Hope that helps.

Bill

it is hard to explain - you misunderstood what i tried to say - this is what i am proposing:

Sitting On Top Of The World (cadenza) - Lick 1 - twice - rgalpin

--------------H----P----------------------H----P-------------
E----15-------------------------15----------------------------
B---------15---18---15--------------15---18---15----------
G--------------------------17--------------------------17----
D--------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
-----U----D----------------D----U----D----------------D----
---------------------------|-LINK-|---------------------------

Probably the first thing I play when I pick up a guitar to noodle is to slide into a pentatonic position with a down stroke on the G string and then UP on the E and DOWN on the B followed by whatever. Ed ends a lot of his phrases with a similar thing picking the B string UP and then G string DOWN - again in the familiar blues pentatonic position.

I think it has to do with the way Ed "swings" all his phrases - those UP strokes are light and a little behind the beat squeezing them up closer timing wise to the DOWN stroke and creating a swing feel where the UP strokes are like "pick up" notes that land on the DOWN strokes.

So in the LINK area which you so clearly illustrated - (thank you!) you have that D U D pattern that swings like crazy with the hammer and pull off in between.

So - now that with your help I have been able to explain what I was trying to say what do you think about it?

I do it ALL the time - all over the place - everything has this little UP flick on the E string and DOWN stroke on the B string - I do it so much it's stupid. And I'm not kidding - it is stupid - but MAN it feels good!!

[Strat78]

Of course these little twiddly Claptonisms are not just stand alone licks, it's how you juggle around those box scales and tuck in bends and most of all how you slide into those positions. Like Rob says, he usually starts with a slide up on the G string. I've been trying to re-train myself lately not to hit the string with the pick to start those slides, but to just slide up with the ring or middle finger. The notes sound themselves pretty much, so when your ready to launch into the flurry, your picking hand is already there like a good tennis serve! I'm wondering if those slides in the machine gun part of Eruption are actually picked (except the first one), it certainly flows better when you don't pick the notes.

[rgalpin]

twiddly claptonisms 101!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sEMKGXq5Q

two phrases:

3:01 to 3:03

3:07 to 3:09

these are not of the REPEATER credenza variety - but man - these two pentatonic blues phrases are the quintessential "ED IS KING" moments for me. to play like ED, get this stuff into your vocab.

are these two phrases found in the clapton vocab somewhere? i would assume so but i haven't spent the necessary time to know. for those that have, i would love to hear the clapton seeds that these may have been drawn from - if for no other reason than to see just how close they are to the original - because as Strat78 said - it's all how you juggle these things in the context of your own expression...

[wjamflan]

it is hard to explain - you misunderstood what i tried to say - this is what i am proposing:

Sitting On Top Of The World (cadenza) - Lick 1 - twice - rgalpin

--------------H----P----------------------H----P-------------
E----15-------------------------15----------------------------
B---------15---18---15--------------15---18---15----------
G--------------------------17--------------------------17----
D--------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------
-----U----D----------------D----U----D----------------D----
---------------------------|-LINK-|---------------------------

Probably the first thing I play when I pick up a guitar to noodle is to slide into a pentatonic position with a down stroke on the G string and then UP on the E and DOWN on the B followed by whatever. Ed ends a lot of his phrases with a similar thing picking the B string UP and then G string DOWN - again in the familiar blues pentatonic position.

I think it has to do with the way Ed "swings" all his phrases - those UP strokes are light and a little behind the beat squeezing them up closer timing wise to the DOWN stroke and creating a swing feel where the UP strokes are like "pick up" notes that land on the DOWN strokes.

So in the LINK area which you so clearly illustrated - (thank you!) you have that D U D pattern that swings like crazy with the hammer and pull off in between.

So - now that with your help I have been able to explain what I was trying to say what do you think about it?

I do it ALL the time - all over the place - everything has this little UP flick on the E string and DOWN stroke on the B string - I do it so much it's stupid. And I'm not kidding - it is stupid - but MAN it feels good!!

Ok. I think I get what you're saying now. From a technical standpoint, you are advocating for "outside" picking (picking from the outer part of the string) while I am advocating for "inside/economy" picking. To each their own. If that's what works for you, I say go for it. It's all good. (Sorry for the cliches)

I'd like to add a couple of things to the mix for those that may be trying to actually learn something from this.

First, the 3rd note of both licks is the accented (on the beat) note. I've notated both as a hammer on because that's how I hear and play them. Listen for yourself and decide: SOTOTW: http://www.mediafire.com/?vlzu7eqzkn5vrc7

The second thing I'd like to add is that Eric Clapton and EVH were both self-taught musicians. I doubt very much that inside or outside picking has ever crossed either of their minds. Both can work in this situation. But... I'm pretty sure that Eric played it like I notated. He uses downstrokes as much as possible, and in this case, he has plenty of time to start the phrase (Lick 1 into Lick 2) with a downstroke - after a slide from the 9th fret on the G string to the 16th fret on the G string. I believe that Ed also approached things in a very similar manner, but if Rob's method works for you, do it that way. It's the feel that matters. Accent that 3rd note and you are good to go.

Happy twiddling.

[Strat78]

twiddly claptonisms 101!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sEMKGXq5Q

two phrases:

3:01 to 3:03

3:07 to 3:09

these are not of the REPEATER credenza variety - but man - these two pentatonic blues phrases are the quintessential "ED IS KING" moments for me. to play like ED, get this stuff into your vocab.

are these two phrases found in the clapton vocab somewhere? i would assume so but i haven't spent the necessary time to know. for those that have, i would love to hear the clapton seeds that these may have been drawn from - if for no other reason than to see just how close they are to the original - because as Strat78 said - it's all how you juggle these things in the context of your own expression...

Sick, that's exactly what I was talking about!

[wjamflan]

twiddly claptonisms 101!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54sEMKGXq5Q

two phrases:

3:01 to 3:03

3:07 to 3:09

these are not of the REPEATER credenza variety - but man - these two pentatonic blues phrases are the quintessential "ED IS KING" moments for me. to play like ED, get this stuff into your vocab.

are these two phrases found in the clapton vocab somewhere? i would assume so but i haven't spent the necessary time to know. for those that have, i would love to hear the clapton seeds that these may have been drawn from - if for no other reason than to see just how close they are to the original - because as Strat78 said - it's all how you juggle these things in the context of your own expression...

Sick, that's exactly what I was talking about!

The first lick is actually more of an Alvin Lee "I'm Going Home" lick mixed with Clapton, and a Clapton finish.

Hear About It Later (3:01)

-------------------------------P----P-------------------B1-----
E--------------12----------------------------------------------
B---12--------------12--------------------------12------------
G--------15--------------15---14---12---14---------12------
D---------------------------------------------------------------
A---------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U----D----U----D---------------D----U-----D------
---------------------------|-----IGH-----|SOTOTW intro|-


The second lick is a variation on the first, with a Jimmy Page finish replacing the Clapton SOTOTW intro lick.

Hear About It Later (3:07)

------------------------------------P----P--------B2>R>B2---
E---12---------------------------------------------------------
B---------12---15--------12----------------------------------
G--------------------14--------15---14---12---14-----------
D---------------------------------------------------------------
A---------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U----D----U----D----U---------------D------------
----------------------------------------------------------------

[plexified]

OH man ,
I got you now . I am sorry to push this thing gents , but I was listening and I just play , but put that way I see your method to the madness . You were making me nuts . And when I just listened to the song it was white bread . BUT to see what your talking about now I am sorry to sweat you all so much . Its a great point and The tab part is totally right their . Rob makes a great point to find it . I watch guys play all the time and I scratch my head like wha ? Funniest thing was watching this cat Roscoe Martinez when he came to town . Amazing player and singer song writer . I was first set out and had to walk up to him to chat . I looked down into his guitar case and saw something . Being he was a lefty it should have been like looking in a mirror , except he strung his left handed guitars right handed ala Hendrix ! I shit at that point . Knowing he played so well and upside down . I was upside down for sure watching him . But , hey , congratulations on your bundle of love . Are their stripes on the stroller ? A cool time in life for you for sure . You and Bill are both great players and I was just so upside down trying to figure out what you were talkin bout . Talkin bout love gang , rock on !

[wjamflan]

Thanks Plexified. It is hard to explain and understand without examples. Glad it finally makes some sense to you.

[wjamflan]

Probably the first thing I play when I pick up a guitar to noodle is to slide into a pentatonic position with a down stroke on the G string and then UP on the E and DOWN on the B followed by whatever. Ed ends a lot of his phrases with a similar thing picking the B string UP and then G string DOWN - again in the familiar blues pentatonic position.

Rob - just out of curiosity.... how do you pick the following from the beginning of the 2nd Outta Love solo?

OUTTA LOVE AGAIN - 2nd Solo

---------B-1.5-and hold>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>R-----B-1.5------B-1.5--------------P---SL---H/SL----
E---|---19---19--19---19--19---19--19---19--19---|---19---19---19-----------------------------------|
B---|---------------------------------------------------|------------------------17---20---17\6------------|
G---|---------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------7/13---|
D---|---------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|
A---|---------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|
E---|---------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------|
---------D----D---U-----D---U----D---U-----D---U--------D----U----D--------D----U----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


---------------------B1---------------------H----P--------------------B1---------------------H----P---------------
E---|---12------------------12------------------------------------------------12-------------------------|--------
B---|---------12---15------------12---12---15---12----------12---15------------12---12---15---12--|--------
G---|-----------------------------------------------------14----------------------------------------------|--14----
D---|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------
A---|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------
E---|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|---------
----------D----U----D-------U----D-----U----------------U-----D----U-------U-----D----U------------------U-----
-----------------------------------|-----SOTOTW-2------|-------------------------|------SOTOTW-2------|----

For the whole solo and slow downer clip, see: http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... &start=165

Like Rob says, he usually starts with a slide up on the G string. I've been trying to re-train myself lately not to hit the string with the pick to start those slides, but to just slide up with the ring or middle finger. The notes sound themselves pretty much, so when your ready to launch into the flurry, your picking hand is already there like a good tennis serve!

I think Phil is spot on here for the ghost slide with his middle finger to start the fireworks.

My question is, to start the third bar, if you play the E at the 12th fret with an upstroke, and the B at the 12th fret with a downstroke, how do you pick the 15th fret (B string) bend that immediately follows? It's pretty quick, and I'm assuming you accent that bent note. Do you not use a downstroke there?

Also... how do you handle the SOTOTW Lick 2 variations that follow with the added note to start on the high E? I think you'd probably just reverse what I have, but I am curious.

For what it's worth, I do agree with what you said in your quote above for the part in Eruption after the A-G-D chords - UP on the high E, DOWN on the B - but I think it's more situational than a hard and fast rule. It has to do with accenting and feel. I think Ed accents the B string bends at the 20th fret in Eruption and uses a downstroke to do so. Plus I can't get that same swing using inside picking for that. The feel is just not there (for me) trying to accent an upstroke bend. Ha ha. I love this stuff....

[wjamflan]

To add to the confusion.... I've played the beginning of this (after the ring finger ghost slide on the G string-from chord) both ways - UP>DOWN and DOWN>UP. It depends on my mood and how fast I want to get to the SOTOTW licks. When I try to play along with Ed, I usually end up doing it this way:

YOU REALLY GOT ME - cadenza

------SL-----------B1-----------H----P----------------------H----P----------------H----P----------------
E------------12---------12--------------------------------------------------12-----------------------------
B------------------15--------12---15---12---------12---12---15---12---------12---15---12------------
G---7/13--------------------------------------14-------------------------------------------------14------
D------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------D----U----D----U----------------U----D----U-----------------D---U----------------U-------

--------------------------|-----SOTOTW-1----|----|---SOTOTW-2 --|---|-----SOTOTW-1-----|------


---------------P----P------------------------------H----P------------------------H---------H----P-----------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B---12--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G---------15---14---12----------14----------11---12---11----------11------------------------------------
D---------------------------14----------14----------------------14----------12---14---11---12---11------
A----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U-----------------U-----D-----U----D-----------------U-----D-----U----------D---------------U--
----|------SOTOTW-1------|---------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------B1.5---------
E--------------------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------------------
G-------------------------------------------------
D---11--------------------------------------------
A---------12-\-11-\-9-\-7-\-5-\---2-------2-----
E---------------------------------------------0----
-----D----U----------------------------------D-----

I love how Ed made these licks his own, combining them in different ways and moving them to different strings. That SOTOTW-1 lick that starts off the second line of what I've notated is a classic Ed combination of Eric Clapton and Alvin Lee. It's a Lee lick with the Clapton feel. This is also what garbeaj was talking about.

YRGM Cadenza - one fifth speed: http://www.mediafire.com/?9o7f10rg7qr59bw

[wjamflan]

Just for the hell of it.....here's another example of Ed using these licks even when he was playing outside of the band:

Can't Get Away From You - cadenza

--------B1---R-----P----H---P---P----H---P---P----H---P---P----H---P---P---H----P----P---P---H----P-------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B---11--------(11)---8---11---8---5---11---8---5---11---8---5-------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------------------------10---8---5---11---10---8---5---10---8----
D--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D-------------------------------*-------------*--------------*-------------*--------------------*----------------



-----H-----P----P---P---H------------B1----------H---P--------------P------------H----P----------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------8-----------------------
B--------------------------------------------8---8---11---8--------11---8-------8---11---8---------
G------11---10---8---5---10------10------------------------10-------------------------------10----
D-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------*-------------D------D---U-------------U----D-------D---U------------U------
---------------------------------------------|---SOTOTW-2----|------------|---SOTOTW-1---|-----



--------------P----P-----------------------H---P------------------------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G---10---11---10---8---------10------7---8---7--------7---8---10---8---7---------7--------------
D-------------------------10-------------------------10--------------------------10-------8---10----
A-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----D----U---------------U----D-------D------------U---D---U---D---U---D----U---D---U---D-----
-----|-----SOTOTW-2-----|--------------------------------------------------------------------



----------------------------------B.25----B1~~~~~~~~~~~~SL\----
E---------------------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------------------------------
D---7---8---7--------7----------------------------------------------
A----------------10-------8---7--------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------10-----------------------------
----U---D---U---D---U---D---U------D------------------------------



Notice how Ed plays the Alvin Lee/Clapton combo to start off the third line above using SOTOTW-2 instead of SOTOTW-1 (like in YRGM). Also, take note of the amazing connection to the SOTOTW lick that immediately precedes it, causing him to double up on the F note at the tenth fret of the G string. Great stuff! And to top it off, he ends by blazing through his non-scalar pattern using alternate picking technique he got from Blackmore and Page. Put it all together and these relatively simple ingredients sound amazing and fresh, to this day (IMHO). Hope this stuff helps someone.

* Play these notes by laying your right hand index finger across the 5th fret (behind your left hand).
For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ97LrFUShI#t=237

Can't Get Away From You (1/5 speed): http://www.mediafire.com/listen/00b7ie4 ... _speed.wav

[garbeaj]

Here is another example of where the "Sitting On Top Of The World" pattern is used by Ed. In the following clip I'm playing the "fast" parts of the "Panama" solo starting at the :51 second mark. This is one of the most famous solos that Ed has ever played and it is one that is fluffed and half-assed so amazingly often when a tribute band plays it or when someone attempts to make a YouTube clip. The key to this solo and so much of Ed's fast playing is right in the Cream licks and specifically in the "Sitting On Top Of The World" cadenza from Goodbye.



I know this is an old clip, but I promise to make a new clip at some point to demonstrate this concept further.

[rgalpin]

This is the greatest thread ever! Thanks for all the stuff in here guys - it will take me some time but i look forward to going through the tabs posted and see where the ups and downs land! And I will try and get a video clip to answer your question about the Outta Love solo - since it's one of the few that I have spent the time to feel confident that i'm at least close.

garbeaj - i would love to see that example from Panama played slowly so that I could keep up with the UPS and DOWNS of it because it sounds amazing. those bursts of blues fury - that's what ed's playing is all about for me.

Lots to learn here! Whenever I run into learning material like this and spend the time to digest it, it always gives my playing a giant booster shot. looking forward to that.

[rgorke]

This is the greatest thread ever! Thanks for all the stuff in here guys - it will take me some time but i look forward to going through the tabs posted and see where the ups and downs land! And I will try and get a video clip to answer your question about the Outta Love solo - since it's one of the few that I have spent the time to feel confident that i'm at least close.

garbeaj - i would love to see that example from Panama played slowly so that I could keep up with the UPS and DOWNS of it because it sounds amazing. those bursts of blues fury - that's what ed's playing is all about for me.

Lots to learn here! Whenever I run into learning material like this and spend the time to digest it, it always gives my playing a giant booster shot. looking forward to that.

Hey Rob, I agree. Remember when you posted that audio of you playing the "high run" portion of Eruption? I can't find the thread but it was a great learning experience.

Edit: Here I found it...

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... on#p172274

[Rich_D]

...for those that may be trying to actually learn something from this.

I have been practicing and trying to apply everything from this thread from the beginning ESPECIALLY the picking. It's become clear to me that not exploring the possibility of changing my picking patterns has held me back trying to play VH.

If you watch Panama on youtube on Chrome, you can click settings and slow it to .25 speed, albeit without sound.

Panama solo

I think that's outside picking on the lick?