Sunset Echo Chamber Reverb Sound

[T.J.Fuller]

I've spent days working on this - thought I would share it - laptop DAW

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... 42778&q=hi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is with an EC-80 no tape in - as a front pedal

there is something cool with that going on .....

doesnt really boost but sounds very VH gritty.

[mapat]

Damn, that sounds great!

What's rig, guitar, etc ( besides the EC-80 )?

[T.J.Fuller]

les paul with 11.5 k ceramic pickup > EC-80 lo in hi out> jcm800 50 watt stock bass 2-3 mid 4-5 treble 5-6 preamp 5
volume 8 > into 4X12 for load > hughes ketner red box direct into behringer 6 ch mixer tone controls set flat ( this unit has great built in compressor and mic pre amps > DAW

the struggle is getting that verb to sound natural

someone hear made a staement about Ed's Guitar Hero tracks - bringing up they heard more ambience than echo or delay.
so striking the balance between echo and reverb is real tough.

I basically did a pretty dry track - used a free plugin shock wave delay by acme bar gig - it has a slapback setting that doesn't add echo it some how adds that space ( there is a way to use delays to get more of a big room sound )

I panned that track and copy and pasted another same track - and used a real bright reverb program called Ambience
and on the wet right ( and I buried it in mix so it didnt take over the track) used a setting long reverb.

and my EQ formula for making any guitar track sound like VH1 - slight boost 60hz sharp cut 599-600 hz and big boost at 6khz.

If they would make a pedal with that formula , it would be a close VH1 in a box pedal.

oh and I am pissed because i used a med/heavy type pick and I usually use .60 tortex for vh - there is way too much doink on the string attack on first half of clip I hate that - but, I was shocked the second half with hammer ons came out well.no pick

[vanhalen5150]

That sounds pretty good. Messing around with the Ec-80 these past few weeks on the relentless dive thread has really got me wondering about that lo-hi setting. Maybe one of the 2 in the bomb was a boost like your using? It gives that extra kick in the nuts thats always missing. A spectrum analysis would be cool on that.

I really like the Neunaber Wet pedal YMI5150 has been using. The vids/clips I've heard really has that "ambience" factor that I dont hear in other pedals or larger racks.

Good playing TJ. Good to hear clips on all this stuff.

[T.J.Fuller]

I have been following you guys on that thread on the sidelines - when you all figure it out - I will pop a tape in - try and do the dive and cut and past it to my clip

...if it doesn't work for me ,,,,THEN I'm cut and pasting your clip and putting it on my clip

we can work out licensing issues later....

[efraser68]

Great chops TJ!!! I need to listen with headphones still but sounds good dude.

[JimiJames]

Nice playing. Sounds good, man ! Me likey lots, TJ !
I don't know about your EQ formula, but there is something here.
Can you re-mix this and back-off the wet ?

[dirtycooter]

Great clip

I go back and forth between using just delay like Ed used an echoplex live and when by himself with no verb (verb was added and he never had it live) and then with verb in my rig.
(Just delays holds up better cosmetically to the ear in ANY given room much better as a note)-just listen to a few of VHoholics clips-mental case I think is all just slap echo or two of the bunch he has-listen carefully to these as he used these brilliantly to create space with no reverb shhhhhhhh tails Thats some cool shit
So
If Ed had some slap back to simulate roomier tone {tape is less distinct in successive repeats} for his personal enjoyment when jamming and THEN they added verb post mic during recording ..... you have to think

How did this happen back then?

It is a formula of delay and verb "together". And don't forget the arrival of a dry tone hittin the verb too.

You have the dry, the slap, and then both get verb but the verb appears opposite plus the verb has its OWN PREDELAY on top of the two afore mentioned things.
I listen to vh2 and 1, WACF, FW, and also 1984 for all the combonations.
I think the key is to listen for if he had a slap on the dry sound and or a different predelay setting on the verb or both.
Its a weird chain reaction in the intro to ATBL. Closest I can simulate is a low level slap and a higher level 300 ms delay all goin into a a carefully crafted verb with its own predelay-theres 1-3 delays I can hear along all these records. Its crazy and maddening to chase!

[dirtycooter]

To elaborate even further

you have two sides -left and right

IF he used the echoplex in the studio then it comes from the same place as the dry sound with a verb and predelay on the opposite right side

This seems to equal dry {which is ground zero} then the slap happening somewhere between 100-150ms on the left and then verb with its own predelay of that combo on the right.

So say if its zero {dry}, plus 100 ms slap, then the other side had a verb with predelay at 100ms-think of the appearances of the starts of those sounds.
Dry, slap at 100ms, then...... dry hittin the verb 100ms late at the same time as the start of the dry reverb trigger, then the slap again in the verb triggering it at 200ms
so 0ms dry, 100 ms slap, then at the same time 100ms late verb starts on the dry sound as this, then 100ms later out at 200ms starts the slap hittin the verb... startin it over again..... its complex!

To unlock the verb sounds on the records you gotta have the delay AND the verb down. And the delay times and predelays of the verb change. Like in the song LIghting Up the SKy-during the breakdown there is a echo out at 300ms along with verb.
Craig Parker Adams hits this same thing in one of his songs at 300ms

Without verb going I like dry, 100ms slap and then an on off alternate 300 ms additional delay for other things and parts.
This sounds awesome without any reverb on. Adding reverb makes it better but changes the game somewhat.

think in terms of LATENCY here. Its mind boggling fricken weird but you'll start hearing some shit happening screwing around with delay and verb together.

My absolute recommendations of experimenting are with two things 50-150 ms verb predelay and slaps from a delay in a range of 70-150ms-somewhere in that range of adjustment lays alot of combonations. a second longer echo 280-320 ms delay can beef it up even more.
RWTD and ATBL seem to have something happening at 300ms out and the rest of the songs don't seem to have this as much.

I dug up a bunch of shit on satriani and he staggers delays and their times into a chain reaction effect to get a ambient verb like effect from delays only[this holds up f'n great ina live setting]-same thing with VH but theres a verb predelay to figure into the equation.
Like I said ..........COMPLEX
If you f with stackin delay times THEN add reverb later on top of those things its crazy the tings that come up and out

[T.J.Fuller]

Nice playing. Sounds good, man ! Me likey lots, TJ !
I don't know about your EQ formula, but there is something here.
Can you re-mix this and back-off the wet ?

Thanks Jimi , Eric and Shannon for positive comments and feedback
to elaborate on the EQ thing - that formula may be a little different for each person
and my own personal EQ maybe a little off.

I have download everbodies clips that ever posts a clip around here, I applied this formula to one of YM5150's killer clips and But, there is someting to the 6khz after the speaker rolloff boost. but he is in some serious VH territory straight out of amp.
loved his YRGM clipage.

I will re-post Sunday Night with corrected wet/dry balance -

I think what thru me off with the balance is that my original recorded/extended clip I went into some YRGM chords and they came out killer but, it is almost like the intro on vh1 is wetter for those intro chords and things are less wet once band kicks in.
I made CD of this clip to listen on car stereo ( after i posted ) and Jimi you are right , to much verb still.

I'm not real good at explaining what I am trying to do and why but, Dirty Cooter's Last 2 post sum it up perfectly on what is going on !!!!

so perfectly well said !!!

I have an echoplex , it isnt in this chain at all , anyway I always use with longer delay setting 330 ms - but I may try this short slap back thing.

he right about delay trails and reverb combined - Ed and Donn Landee have this so perfect on record.

short slap back with correct reverb and you don't get the what I call -the George Lynch Digital Delay in effects loop trails

that ambience with no trails is what I'm trying to acomplish but, Dirty Cooter you know how to explain it very well ....