Music Theory and Eddie's Scale Choices

[mkramer5150]

For years, I've scoured the Web searching for insight, from a music theory perspective, into Eddie's inimitable soloing style. Unfortunately, I've largely come up empty handed. Since no other site has done it, I thought perhaps we could found the world's foremost analytical repository here with an eye towards "cracking his code," so to speak.

With that in mind, here goes: Eddie's soloing style always struck me as being somewhat protean within any given song, which can greatly complicate an analysis of what he's up to scale-wise. But at the same time, if you look at his body of work as a whole, a few recurring themes emerge.

One trick that Eddie seems particularly fond of is to switch between the major and minor modes of the pentatonic/blues scale. His leads on "You Really Got Me" (which is in slack tuning) alternate between the A major and A minor pentatonic scales, for example. He employed a similar approach in his improvised lead to "Cabo Wabo" when VH played at the club's grand opening (here's a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgY2rt_e84E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ).

Other times, however, he tends to throw caution to the wind and yet somehow finds a way to "fall down the stairs and land on his feet," as he was so often fond of saying. By that, I mean he didn't follow any particular scale when playing a lead, but rather employed convenient fingering patterns that resolve to the tonic of the moment. "I'm the One" and "Source of Infection" are replete with such examples.

What do you guys think? Have you found an easily describable method to his madness?

[Funky Hunky]

Yes! Great idea. Took me years of trying to play by the rules to come to the realization he didn't, but somehow it fit. Not only ending on the right resolve etc. but the happy or unhappy sound. Random, exotic, unusual feel and phrasing. He is not the most practiced or technically proficient player. But did the most amazing things with what he had. Most unique, intriguing, innovative player of all time though.

[johnnybgoood]

Flamenco.

Everyone talks blues and there is the Clapton fluidity in Van Halen's pentatonic soloing but....IMO the person without a doubt who influenced Ed the most was Alex Van Halen. I bet if someone directly asked Ed if Alex was a big influence, he would say yes. After Alex stopped with piano, his parents allowed him to take flamenco guitar lessons. Guaranteed whatever Alex was taught, Eddie soaked in as well. They both must have listened to Sabicas' recordings. Ed's flutter picking is his take on flamenco tremolo fingerpicking and the picado technique. His finger tapping is his variation on arpeggio falsetas. The intro to Mean Street is Ed electrifying the golpe (i.e. playing the guitar like a drum). The biggest influence of flamenco on the Van Halen brothers is the emotion and rawness in their rhythmic interplay.

Eddie is the essence of flamenco electrified. Play without rules.

[Strat78]

oops, repeat post.

[rgorke]

I agree that is this is a great thread subject. It has been touched on in the past. There is a thread titles "Where Ed plays on the neck" and also a thread where the "high run" and "machine gun" sections of Eruption are detailed and the discussion on the final run in YRGM.

For me, part of what sets Ed apart is HOW he plays certain scales or pieces of scales. What always amazes me is when someone dissects Ed's work there is invariably a comment, "well this note doesn't fit this scale, but it works."

[Tone Slinger]

I think that Ed,like said, was influenced in a early way (earliest foundation, so to speak) by his Brothers guitar lessons. That and both of thier piano lessons. Ed was pretty much 'alone' on the guitar from that earliest introduction though,left to listen to Alex's records,until he started getting his ownI guess.

Obviously Ed was drenched in the whole late '60's sound (Cream, Hendrix)BLUESY. But, he liked Page and Iommi (yes Iommi,like the jazz break/swing of 'Wicked World' as compared to say "I'm The One"), even Ed's fast pentatonic/blues/minor song ending cadenza's are sorta like early Iommi 'jams' on that first Sabbath album. The beggining of 'Fairies Wear Boots' and 'Aint Talkin Bout Love' ? Still, there was one guy who obviously influenced Ed's 'Scale Choices' and that was Ritchie Blackmore. The song 'Lazy', alone, with no other song being needed, pretty much has the 'EVH' scale in it, as well as contains much of what Ed used,diatonically. Ed latched on to the swing and roll of the '3 notes per string' thing,especially using the blue note in these triplet clusters(like the last lick in 'Ice Cream Man',pulling from the 12th fret (B)on the b string to the bflat(blue note in E) on the 11th fret b string, etc). And yes, Ed really did the whole major/minor pentatonic thing (He said in '79"like I can be playing in 'A' and mess around in F#").
Alot of the ascending/descending tremelo picked runs are also straight from Blackmore.

The use of the tremelo was also influenced by Blackmore (as well as Uli Jon Roth)I'd say.

But in the end, alot of people dont realize or See Ed's influences, cause he didnt mention them (for good reason, ala Harvey Mandel). To Ed's complete praise though is his underlying FEEL and Musicality, that was soDIFFERENT from his MAIN influences (Blackmore, Clapton,Hendrix,Iommi,Page, etc). "Youthful light speed technique" and "rhythmic Aggression", I agree, those are the things that really made Ed's 'Scale Choices' stand out.

[Jerry G]

Furthermore, the Wolfgang looks like a strat wearing Depends.

[ErickC]

check out JFRocks.com (Jeff Fiorentino)
He gives lessons on how to create VH-style music and even has a series of songs he van halen-ized and most of them kick butt.
During each lesson he explains some theory but he always prefaces things by saying "Van Halen is all about sounding good" so figuring out why Ed does what he does really makes no sense "theoretically" but musically it does.

[garbeaj]

My opinion about music theory and how it relates to Eddie's playing is that it doesn't.

In the discussions in the "Where Ed Plays On The Neck" thread you will see that basically me and wjamflan agree and I think have shown that it is the live Clapton during the Cream days (best heard on Cream's last album Goodbye and the Live Cream albums) that has had the most influence on his right hand picking style and blues or blues-rock or rock soloing in the conventional sense as you hear it in say the lead guitar in "Panama" for example.

The wide left hand stretch patterns and lots of his note choices and left hand playing in general don't really make much "music theory sense" if any. They are really just visual "patterns"...so much so that many of these patterns just "follow the dots" or they "follow-the-dots" with some open strings thrown in. Some things like the cadenzas at the end of "You Really Got Me" and "I'm the One" really just seem to me to be regular box position blues licks that he decided to throw in some "extra" notes into the mix...I don't think Ed has made very many musical choices based on theory. More often than not I believe he just does things that sound good to him. I feel this is partly why Ed's style and licks have very little place in music other than Van Halen music. I know he took piano lessons and by different accounts given by Ed he has sometimes claimed that he can read music and that he does know theory. Other interviews show Ed claiming that he can't read music and doesn't know much theory. He has oftentimes stated that he basically learned all the piano pieces that he played in competitions and during lessons by ear. "Fooling the teacher" and "learning pieces by ear so well that he won the competition" stories are so common from Ed that I tend to think he really knows very little music theory and that if asked he couldn't give any sort of music theory explanation of his own playing to anyone if you held a gun to his head.

For instance, the cadenza of "Ice Cream Man" is just a guy playing patterns that "follow-the-dots"...there really isn't any music theory explanation for it, though maybe some Berklee graduate like John Mayer or somebody could apply some music theory knowledge to explain it. But I don't think there was any such explanation or base in Ed's mind when he created these licks. I think he just played alot and came up with alot of licks.

[dazzlindino]

My opinion that basically me agree and I think just seems to me...I don't think,I believe, I feel, I know, I tend to think, I don't think, I think

[garbeaj]

My opinion that basically me agree and I think just seems to me...I don't think,I believe, I feel, I know, I tend to think, I don't think, I think

I don't get the meaning of that, but whatever. What exactly are you trying to say?

[fhn_lopes]

I hear (and see) 99% of his soloing being pentatonic licks... even during tapping, if you know what I mean... The other stuff usually are musical 'outside' notes, that mostly will fit the pentatonic scale his is using durng the moment... I can't see anything complicated theorically speaking...

I think it's more related to what sounded nice to him, and much less of theory based stuff.... actually he says that from time to time.. I remember him saying to Dweezil Zappa that he couldn't even count the tempo .. Alex is a major influence AND his ground too, can't imagine him playing with another drummer...

my 2 cents

[mr.twistyneck]

He uses the pentatonic box in ways most don't - partly due to how he was musically taught at a young age and IMHO his somewhat unorthodox pick grip.

<full disclosure: I am not a music teacher. If I make some mistakes here, you've been warned>

He likes the Mixolydian mode and the Dorian mode. Mixolydian is just a Major scale with a dominant 7 - so the hop from the 7th note to the octave above the root is a whole step rather than a half. Why? it may be that his ear likes it - but it's also easy to play - start anywhere on the Low E and play the 1st, 3rd and 5th frets, then do the same on the A string and D string. bam, there's ya Mixylidden. "Same-ness" is key here - the more patterns that walk the same way across all strings (end of Jump Solo, the beginning of Ice Cream Man solo, et al) the more he was apt to use them.

If you know the major scale, by moving it up and down the neck you can be in a different mode.
So if you play a G major scale over an A blues progression, you're going to be in A Dorian. look at the 2nd barrage of pulloffs in the beginning sequence of Eruption - see how those fit neatly over a major scale? that's a G major scale, but he's playing it over the implied A chord - ergo, Dorian.

Similarly, if you play an E major scale over an A chord, that's Mixolydian, because you've got the Flatted G of the E scale.

I'll double check later this week when I have time. Modes are fun - there are basically seven patterns on guitar, and if you happen to like one pattern over the rest, just familiarize yourself with the pattern, then shift it depending on what feel you want to use.

So if you're vamping on a D9 chord, play an A-major scale.
if you're vamping on an A chord, play a G major scale
stuff like that. it's the same as how you take the pentatonic box that everybody plays at the 12 fret (minor pentatonic) and shift it down 4 frets and bang, you're playing country (major pentatonic).

[fhn_lopes]

I hear jumps between minor and major penta scale in "and the cradle will rock" solo...

Not only country, but BLUES also uses the major penta... Twisty, your post made me remind my 18's when I used to be a very dedicated guitar student... good times

[efraser68]

He uses the pentatonic box in ways most don't - partly due to how he was musically taught at a young age and IMHO his somewhat unorthodox pick grip.

<full disclosure: I am not a music teacher. If I make some mistakes here, you've been warned>

He likes the Mixolydian mode and the Dorian mode. Mixolydian is just a Major scale with a dominant 7 - so the hop from the 7th note to the octave above the root is a whole step rather than a half. Why? it may be that his ear likes it - but it's also easy to play - start anywhere on the Low E and play the 1st, 3rd and 5th frets, then do the same on the A string and D string. bam, there's ya Mixylidden. "Same-ness" is key here - the more patterns that walk the same way across all strings (end of Jump Solo, the beginning of Ice Cream Man solo, et al) the more he was apt to use them.

If you know the major scale, by moving it up and down the neck you can be in a different mode.
So if you play a G major scale over an A blues progression, you're going to be in A Dorian. look at the 2nd barrage of pulloffs in the beginning sequence of Eruption - see how those fit neatly over a major scale? that's a G major scale, but he's playing it over the implied A chord - ergo, Dorian.

Similarly, if you play an E major scale over an A chord, that's Mixolydian, because you've got the Flatted G of the E scale.

I'll double check later this week when I have time. Modes are fun - there are basically seven patterns on guitar, and if you happen to like one pattern over the rest, just familiarize yourself with the pattern, then shift it depending on what feel you want to use.

So if you're vamping on a D9 chord, play an A-major scale.
if you're vamping on an A chord, play a G major scale
stuff like that. it's the same as how you take the pentatonic box that everybody plays at the 12 fret (minor pentatonic) and shift it down 4 frets and bang, you're playing country (major pentatonic).

Hey Twisty, great explanations and I think there are couple of things might need correcting (I too am not a music teacher).

- The part about doing 1st, 3rd, and 5th fret on low E, A, and D strings being Mixolydian might be true, but depends on the context of the chord it's being played over, yes? But as a "shape" it does have a flattened or dominant 7

"Similarly, if you play an E major scale over an A chord, that's Mixolydian, because you've got the Flatted G of the E scale.
"

- I believe playing a D maj scale over an A chord is Mixolydian:
A maj chord: A, C#, E, G# (i, iii, v, vii)
D maj scale: D, E, F#, G , A, B, C# (G here is the dom 7 of the A maj)

But and A maj scale over an E chord should be Mixolydian as well, maybe that's what you meant?

But someone may have to check my work too