The Best Thing To Learn In Order To Play Like Ed

[garbeaj]

Well I could care less about having the last word, but I do feel compelled to try to explain myself when people are clearly having difficulty understanding my point. There are many people who don't really care to learn things note-for-note and there's nothing wrong with that at all. This thread is about understanding how and where Ed got these specific licks, picking patterns and legato feel from, and that is Eric Clapton in the live Cream era. If anyone doesn't care to learn this stuff then that's cool. For those that do, here I go again...ad nauseum.

[Strat78]

I want the last word then. I think the feel of that lick is important because it kind of breaks the shred typewriter mentality where every note needs to be picked perfectly while going between point A to point B in a blaze of glory. Despite the fixed nature of the pattern, it is a very human sounding lick. This is why Ed's shredding is not so gratuitous, because the school of shred was not yet raining supreme in the early 70's, so he hard wired into his fingers a more non linear juggling approach to soloing. I think that is what EC did for Ed. I feel fortunate having been turned onto guitar by Page, Hendrix, Iommi, Montrose, Frank Marino etc.. It made me appreciate the genius of Ed's transitional guitar work and call BS on what was to come. Though I get a big kick out of Yngwie and Vai these days, I guess I took them too seriously back in the day, but now I get it.

[garbeaj]

I absolutely agree with you Phil. That legato thing that Ed does with these licks is THE most important thing to get right...Clapton originally played these licks with this legato "falling into the phrase" feel that is all about timing and smooth feeling on certain notes and accenting others in these little phrases. Ed copied this feel and picking pattern as identically as he could and poured on the speed and voila...we have the phrases that make up such a signature part of many of Ed's best solos that the official Cherry Lane and Guitar World transcribers miss completely (the gobbledygook that transcribers insert into these parts is astoundingly wrong every time!).

I think this feel that Ed developed from studying Clapton so closely is indeed what sets him apart from the shredders that were his predecessors (Dimeola and McLaughlin, etc) and contemporaries (Schon and Rhoads) and the shredders that followed him (Vai, Yngwie, Satriani, Greg Howe, etc. etc. Shrapnel records artists...). I always wondered why and how Ed could play so fast with so much soul and others could not, but I think this connection with Clapton was a big part of it.

These identical notes and phrases sound completely different when played by, for instance, Jimmy Page or Scott Gorham or Slash or Zakk Wylde or even Robin Trower...whomever you care to name. These phrases are so common but the feel and understanding of how of these phrases are being played when Ed plays them are missed by most transcribers and players who attempt them. So even though you, me and Bill understand how to play these phrases correctly, most people do not and I'm ultimately trying to help these people get an understanding of the feel and execution of these Clapton/Van Halen licks that we take for granted.

[vanhalen5150]

Can you imagine if there had been accurate tab of those first 3 albums when they came out?

40 years later it still doesn't exist.

[garbeaj]

Exactly! This is partly why I feel passionate about getting the correct fingerings for these licks out there, and also why I work at transcribing many pieces to try and correct the shockingly wrong transcriptions that bamboozle beginners and long time players alike. I know wjamflan feels pretty much the same way. Getting a better understanding of the music that you love is always a good thing

[rgalpin]

The best thing to learn in order to play like Ed is where the softest spot on the edge of your bed is because you're going to be there a while.

[garbeaj]

The best thing to learn in order to play like Ed is where the softest spot on the edge of your bed is because you're going to be there a while.

Hah...that's true. But then you have to bust your ass again to practice playing all the licks standing up! Trust me when I say that the "Ice Cream Man" lick, for example, is difficult to play sitting down and very difficult to play standing up!

[rgalpin]

do tell. plus, don't forget the facial expressions. this can throw a wrench into things. if you practice with your mouth closed... just wait until you go to make that look of "i just pulled this lick out of thin air - i don't even know where it came from!!" and the whole thing falls apart because your jaw bone moved and a pint of saliva rolled out of your mouth and all into your vintage dimarzio SD - but just keep going - in fact, do it twice so that they know you meant it.

[rgorke]

now I get the last word...this is just ONE lick that Ed takes in his direction. To distill Ed's full repertoire of chops to one lick is a bit simplistic. He took what he learned form Clapton (and others) and built his chops. Yes, this is one, as he puts it "there are licks that I do but the good ones come out when I am not thinking.." That is from the Rosen interview.

Even he doesn't really know the lick until he slows it down and certainly can't (or won't) really say this came from Clapton.

[rgalpin]

i have heard folks say that there is a lot of blackmore in ed's playing - even to the point where there is so much that ed makes a point of not mentioning it. i've never sat down and learned a blackmore solo (nor have i stood up and learned one either - for the record) maybe someone who has taken the time to study a little blackmore might like to chime in with some specifics.

[dirtycooter]

Been really eyeballin this thread and watchin the vids and all the break down done here. Tons of great insight here.
When I began playin I was a metal head. Loved metal riff after riff. So some of the stuff melded right over-the basics. The alternate picking down up stuff sucks to learn but pays off. So much goes into the right hand its crazy. But alot of bands were just machine like and methodical though. Repititious like a machine. Maybe they practiced. And here I think Ed just played instead. No practice per sey.
There is one thing Ed doesn't ever sound like. He will play the same basic riff through out a song but each ones different somehow everytime it seems. He is spillin over but right in the groove. Its as if he defies himself to copy the same riff over and over precisely. Or maybe he just can't because its way too boring. And that is kinda where I left metal behind and moved over to more rock playing and fell in love with VH.
Its tough to just sit down and play when your constantly distracted by your tone. And we are always obsessing with tone more than actual playing. When I wanna step up better playin unplugged sittin on the shitter or front porch or at the kitchen table just listening too the strings-thats where things sharpen up quick. Because there is no tone to obsess over, be too loud, fatigue your ears, etc. Its just you and the organic metal and wood and delrin. The core of it all.
And we see alot of Ed in parts here and there of interviews and clips gone by. He noodles alot this way. And when I wanna strengthen my hands this is like dead lifting for me.

[dirtycooter]

I find unplugged hard to get into until you do it for a bit again then your fine. But I think most of us are plugged into something like a POD with earphones at least when we are sussin out the licks. This seems to bring me into sloppyness vs what unplugged does. I really think Ed has probably played this way more than he ever did plugged in I bet.

[garbeaj]

now I get the last word...this is just ONE lick that Ed takes in his direction. To distill Ed's full repertoire of chops to one lick is a bit simplistic. He took what he learned form Clapton (and others) and built his chops. Yes, this is one, as he puts it "there are licks that I do but the good ones come out when I am not thinking.." That is from the Rosen interview.

Even he doesn't really know the lick until he slows it down and certainly can't (or won't) really say this came from Clapton.

I agree, but the reason why I focus on this lick is that these licks happen to be the licks that everyone half-asses or just plain can't even hear because it goes by so fast. Nearly all of Ed's other licks are very easily understood-the "Ice Cream Man" lick and a couple of others aside-but this is the lick that none of the transcribers seem to get right. The passages in Ed's solos where these licks occur seem to be THE stumbling blocks that even experienced players and transcribers fail to hear, understand or perform correctly. I mean how often have you seen someone actually play the fast parts of the "Panama" solo correctly? The fast part of the "When It's Love" solo? The ending cadenzas of "You Really Got Me" and "I'm The One"? The fast parts and legato of the "Outta Love Again" solo? How often have you seen or heard anyone hit the feel and speed of where these licks occur in the "Hot For Teacher" solo?

The fact is that these licks are the backbone of Ed's playing and they are the parts that almost no one seems to get right. Sure there's the tapping, the harmonic tapping, the artificial harmonics, the rising hammered triplets on each successive string (a la "Spanish Fly" and the "On Fire" solo)...but these parts of Ed's playing are really fairly easy to hear, understand and play. YouTube is rife with people playing these parts fairly well. But the same can't be said of these "Sitting On Top Of The World"/live Cream Clapton licks. Most players can't even hear this stuff without a slow downer. I know I couldn't. I never got the feel, timing and speed of these licks right until Bill pointed this all out to me and proved it with his clear TAB with the picking directions and the slowed-down recordings.

As far as Ed not saying that he got these specific licks from Clapton in the Rosen interview? Yes he did not say "I got this part from Clapton" and then immediately play these licks...but he did play these licks and there is no doubt where these licks came from-I think wjamflan and myself have proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt. And again, Ed has shouted from the rooftops that Clapton was and remains his single biggest influence. There's just no getting around it.

And why would anyone want to get around it? Understanding the link between Clapton and Ed is CRUCIAL to understanding the most difficult and most often mis-heard and mis-played parts of Ed's solos. Ed says the good stuff comes out when he's not thinking...but the deal is that he doesn't have to think about playing these Clapton/Cream licks...because he has been drilling them almost non-stop since he was around 12 years old. These licks just came out of him because he worked so hard for so many years to try to sound as close to Clapton in Cream as he could. And when these licks came out of him, they came out in almost the exact same patterns for left hand fingering and right hand picking direction every time as we have shown.

[garbeaj]

I find unplugged hard to get into until you do it for a bit again then your fine. But I think most of us are plugged into something like a POD with earphones at least when we are sussin out the licks. This seems to bring me into sloppyness vs what unplugged does. I really think Ed has probably played this way more than he ever did plugged in I bet.

Ed has said this since day one...he plays the unplugged electric guitar all day around the house when he isn't recording or playing something that is specifically dependent on amplification. He did use the Bandmaster as a practice amp when he was playing at home to not disturb Mrs. Van Halen, but he has said in many interviews that he "noodled" (another word for "practicing") on the unplugged electric constantly.

For what it's worth, I'm 43 now and I have practiced on acoustic guitars and unplugged electrics nearly all the time...at least 75% of the time. I only plug in for band practice or at gigs or at home as a "reward" to myself once I'm able to execute everything that I practice on the unplugged electric or unplugged acoustic or acoustic-electric guitar. I can say that this has been nothing but a benefit to my playing throughout my life.

Now that said, there is a whole art to being able to palm mute and control feedback and string noise when standing in front of a 100W Marshall stack or even one of my cranked combo amps. That's a whole other thing.

[JimiJames]

i have heard folks say that there is a lot of blackmore in ed's playing - even to the point where there is so much that ed makes a point of not mentioning it. i've never sat down and learned a blackmore solo (nor have i stood up and learned one either - for the record) maybe someone who has taken the time to study a little blackmore might like to chime in with some specifics.

"...Who are the players you really admire now?

It’s funny. There’s two types of guitarists. Like Blackmore, I used to hate, because I met him once at the Rainbow with John Bonham when we were just playing clubs. You know, I grew up on him too, and I ran over and said hello, and they both just looked at me and said, “Who are you? Fuck off.” And it pissed me off. And to this day I remember that. And then just recently Rainbow played the Long Beach Arena. I went down there. This is right after I won Best Guitaristist [in the Guitar Player Readers Poll], which I’m real honored – makes me feel good. I went down there, in a way, with a vengeance, you know. I just felt like saying, “Hey, motherfucker, remember me? About three years ago, when you treated me like shit?” But I didn’t. I just said hello, and he knew me, I guess just through records and radio, and he complimented me.


I did an interview once with Circus magazine, and they asked me, “Who are your main influences?” I said, “Well, Clapton, you know, the usuals.” And they said, “Oh, not Jimi Hendrix?” I go, “No, actually I didn’t like Jimi Hendrix at all. He was too flash for me. I get off on the bluesy feeling that Clapton projected,” but then I said, “even though I don’t play like Clapton or sound like him at all.” Which doesn’t sound egoed out, because I don’t sound like him. But when I read it back, they made it seem like, “I don’t play like Clapton. I’m better than all of them.” That’s the way it read in print. So I called the guy up. I just go, “Hey, fuck you, man! That’s the last time I’m doing an interview with you.” Which I guess is bad to do too, but the fucked thing is the kids only know me through what they read. I feel like going door to door and going, “Hey, this is bullshit. Don’t believe it.” But the kids do. I ain’t no extrovert. I’m a quiet person. That’s probably why I do all these weird things on guitar.

I’ve heard that Jimi Hendrix was like that too.

Yeah. There’s a lot of people who don’t know me who hate me, because they think I’m some egoed-out motherfucker, but I’m not at all..." -J.O.