EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

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dirtycooter
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EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:25 am

For all the trollers and lurkers heres a cool bone thrown at you.
Heres the shtick.
If you own a G Force, you may be very delighted. Especially of you have a simple wet dry setup.
Or as I am running it Dry Wet Wet setup.
I have taken WDW three cabs and put the two effect cabs in stereo on one side and the dry on the left.
Having screwed and messed with all kinds of stuff lookin for this elusive verb formula I feel I have perfected it.
While I only have the smart phone and no actual computer now to load up clips I would invite anyone to try this setting.
Killdry mode in the g force engaged, feeding the cabs placed on opposite side in stereo from the dry cab-you pick which side is wet and dry here.
Now, create a dual delay preset. Keep the verb off for now by bypassing the verb block or turning its level off.
We are gonna focus on gettin the delay all sweet and cookin first, shape it a bit with the filters to sweeten and soften it up some and settin the level so its not competing against the dry cab but complimenting it and gettin it sounding like a long doubler effect or quick single slap.
One delay is 100ms and the other is 300ms.
Pan and center both delays. Turn off the 300ms out level for now also and focus on the 100ms delay line.
Now run the pipeline across the matrix straight across from the delay block.
Filter on the high end of the delay is 3.16khz to just under 5khz. To taste here. Mine is at or just under 4.56khz on the hi cut.
Bottom end is above 75hz but below 200hz to taste here is your low end window of play to tweak in by ear.
This kinda trims up the delay tone to be in the zone as green back speakers are between 75hz and 5khz response anyway. So you wanna trim inside toward the middle of these two frequencies.
It simulates the loss of frequencies at a distance here.
Keep the top end brighter but low end thinner here in the scheme of things.

Feedback for both delays?
1 repeat. Zero feedback for sure on the 100ms line 1.
Line 2 could have enough to have a very faint second repeat-to taste.

Now?
Run a reverb block in parallel fed and split off from the killdry delay that is passing straight through.
Make sure it looks something like this in the matrix

-----------------delay-----------------------------------------------------------------

I-----reverb------------------------------------
Be sure the verb is below one line and one box space over from the delay block.
Now pick the verb Cathedral in "advanced reverb" for the reverb block.
Zero predelay in the verbs parameters as the 100ms actual killdry delay line IS the predelay!
Turn the dual delays 300ms delay level completely off right now to zero% so you have just one single 100ms repeat a 80-100% level that was set with the output knob on the front panel to 50/50 mix to feed and tweak your verb in.
This single 100ms delay line you want to now balance level wise with the front panel OUTPUT knob against your dry cab to "mix it " for proper wet and dry balance mix.
Remember delay line one level is 80-100% level. Use the g forces output knob to boost or lower the wet cab or stereo cabs against the dry.

Now go into the verb advanced block set to "cathedral" for the reverb "size". The Reverbs " Top color" is set to bright or crisp for me and bottom end is reduced to the lesser portions toward "thin".
You wanna get rid of boominess and bass in the verb here.
"Room Level" is above the normal setting. Raise it to make it more audible and thick. More prominent.
Room level is a very important control as it effects the liveliness and volume of the reflections. As you turn this up and it gets too loud mix wise just reduce the input level to bring it back down so its makin the sound you like but at the right level in relation to the verb.
It kinda jacks up the resonance inside the room you are emulating so very touchy control here in the TC.
The kicker??
You aren't gonna have a verb tail much longer than 1 second. Its between 1-1.5 seconds of verb tail.
More about 1sec for me in my settings.

Now? You have that 100ms slap happening?? At almost a 1-1 mix ratio?? Of wet and dry?
Start at about 30-40% "input level" in the reverb block while its output is maxed. Slowly raise the "input level" of the verb (which is fed by the delay block that is already mixed against the dry cab for wet dry ratio) and begin clouding up that 100ms single slap delay line.
Stand back folks. Don't cum on your socks😉

You will begin to see how this will absolutely take a fat shit on anything Lexicon ever thought of doin.
And I been all over my PCM80!

The verbs are much smoother, airier, and transparent than the Lex's ever thought of being. In comparison its like silk vs sandpaper and realistic vs completely fake.
Trust me, I wasn't able to believe it myself. But its true.
TC has amazing ass kicking real sounding verb after all.
And its much more sophisticated and smoother than lexicons. By far. The early reflections and smooth transparency is miles ahead!
And most of all?? They really have mind blowing "room" simulations in the G-Force verbs that are really truely amazing! The depth is astounding if you pulled it together right.
Wanna take this setting bluesier??
Start bringin up the level of the verb in comparison to the delay and just a smidge more decay time added to taste.


Now you can start bringing up that 300ms delay line to taste.
Or not at all. The parts for the echoplex at 300ms and the levels??
You can simply blend in a tiny bit like the beginning of panama or higher like spots of VH1.
Plus there is a cross feedback level of the dual delay lines you can play with last. But not really neccassary.
You are gonna shit.
I have delay line 2's level hooked to my expression pedal so I can swell it in how I want seemlessly. Works like a charm and no preset change needed with program gaps or artifacts.

Hopefully someone gets this, tries it, and reports back.
I am gonna say this one time.
You will never get this out of a Lexicon ever.
And I been at this a long ass time!
The spatial image of the verb is truely 3D and so smooth and subtle. And done right??
Its a slap lag deck signal buried so carefully in just the right kinda verb. Nails it balls out😎
One box does it all.
Get the Level of delay to dry balanced. Then add the verb to the delay in balance. In parallel in the matrix.
I have had different delays and fx boxes all running through a mixer with outboard delays using the verb in the tc in parallel and it was kick ass. Now its like I only need this one box really and no outboard mixer per sey cause you can do these parallel tricks internally and when I began using levels instead of mix to adjust things it really made a difference.
When you turn 40, then find out you finally do have a child, a 25 year old beautiful daughter?? And.... GRANDKIDS!?! Thats AWESOME!!!!!

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Megaro
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Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by Megaro » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:07 pm

Nice post, DC. Do you have any clips that you might be able to share with one of these settings ?
Sounds like this might be a nice piece of kit for an all-in-one VH ambience machine.

dirtycooter
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Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by dirtycooter » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:35 pm

No clips right now. If I had a decent laptop right now I would. But its relatively simple and this TC box in particular is stellar for this application.
I still use the PCM80 but its for the spaced out long psycho depths of hell delays and reverb which the TC can't do. Kinda like eds solo spots when. He does Cathedral with his pcm70.
But strikingly after seeing the real sunset verb chamber and how small it was compared to how much bigger I always envisioned?
Its not about big long huge verb. But a "bright room" simulation I was after.
The algos in the tc offer superior imaging in the initial first few ms of the verbs for that "room" thing. Very smooth wide and 3d.
So I simply created in a program the lag deck playback being fed into what I feel is the same kinda bright room then recorded. Pretty simple. A delay and the right kinda verb=magic! And over 50% of that vh verb is delay alone.
I also am messin with a killer echoplex simulation in my MPXg2. The delays in this box are super under-rated!
There is a way in the Lex MPX1 and G2's to place other adjacent effects INTO the feedback loop of the delay.
Right now I have EQ and Chorus placed in the delays feedback loop. What you get is that same kinda strymon el capistan simulation where it walks off and gets narrower and peaky where the top end stays fairly crisp but the bottom end progressively gets thinner and thinner as it regenerates each time. Depending on how much and where you EQ it you can get pretty much super close to the el cap minus the grit and dirt simulation modeling. The chorus can be used to simulate tape wow and flutter. A verb can be placed also into the feedback loop for some diffusion as well. Fun and great delay tones hidden inside this box most don't know about cause its such a pain to program Lex classic boxes like these and the pcm's. This power and fx tone was hugely overlooked I must say in the mpx series back then. Its pcm 80 quality but better-24bit not 18bit like the pcm80. Other than neutered verbs in the mpx its stellar sonically. They cut the verb capability down in the mpx1 and g2 to avoid competing with the big boy pcm boxes.
The g2 I use like a mpx1 by simply puttin a dummy jack in the insert send which tricks it into thinkin its attached to an fx loop set up lettin me use the back half of the processor. Then I have a momentary switch I use to bypass the "insert" givin me spillover of my delay/echo programs. I can scroll up or down 10 programs in Map3 location I created, store them as OFF so when I load the program its ready and just waitin for the kick of the switch for instant on off.
Same with the PCM. Works same way. No lag in preset changes and all have spillover this way. And mostly you are just trompin on a cheap momentary switch 90% of the time without havin to abuse your midi controller.
Which by the way I am lovin my MorningStar MC6 midi controller. Its amazing for the money and the size is smaller than a timefactor pedal and a tad over $200. Lovin it so far and easy to program. Compact, cheap, great display, two expression pedal ports or add 6 more momentary switches if you like, able to be powered 3 different ways-phantom down the midi cable, power port to run off a standard pedal power, or througg the usb port in which you can also edit on a your computer, huge abilities midi wise if you are into that stuff. Its gets a recommendation here from me, happy customer.
So basically my tc is runnin that 100ms custom verb program, the mpx echo programs I can blend into parallel with my CAE line mixer which gives a direct path for the mox and one that sends part of the mpx to the verb in the tc, and for that one huge spaced out freak show program I got the PCM80 takin over duties
When you turn 40, then find out you finally do have a child, a 25 year old beautiful daughter?? And.... GRANDKIDS!?! Thats AWESOME!!!!!

dirtycooter
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Posts: 2919
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by dirtycooter » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:19 pm

The reverb production really adds to the feel of the classic vh vibe in spades.
Watch pete thorn demo that sl68 again.
Listen to his own production and song he wrote and then he uses the same exact tone and settings he used to get the vh sound to do his song "perplexed".
Listening to pete play perplexed in his own production does not really sound like vh. But? Its the same tone!
Watch how he demos the vh sound then jumps into his own stuff. You would completely overlook it
Its the vibe and feel of the amp and production that makes it what it is. So many pieces are important to gettin that tone, including all the studio fx and dressing that went into it.
I have had a few boxes and fx over the years lusting afyer this one and that one, wonderin what a H8000 would sound like but not wantin to spend 5g.
I have looked at and played with the pedals like the factor series and all that biz with wall warts to deal with placement and all that stuff.
I have my regular phase flanger kinda stuff on a traditional out front pedal board along with my foot control biz for the amp, rack fx.
Rack is 8u

Furman
Pcm80
CAE dual stereo line mixer
TC GF
Mpx g2
Rack control interface
Power in/out interface
Matrix gt1000

With one CAE line out box I modified to have two extra line outputs in the back that feed signal to my fx.
The mixers mix 1 feeds mix 2 so you can cascade one box into another while keepin it parallel while also killin all the dry sound. Here is where you kinda stack delays carefully if you want.
But basically I could get almost everything outta the TC alone. I just wanted specific things from each box.
The deep space verb in the PCM is jaw dropping!
BlackHole in the eventide space here but better i feel for my tastes.
You can't get the walk off longer feedback changes in the TC's delays like you can the mpx. TC has a filter that only filters output of the delay repeat one time. Sending a filtered signal through another filter makes its frequencies squash down more and more as it recirculates through givin it a more true tapey effect. This is where the mpx shines. But ed never used more than barely one repeat anyway so its moot really. Its just an effect I like to throw in and had to have in there.
But the heart and core standard vh verb thingy resides solely in the TC by itself. And as stated earlier you can set up a dual delay in the TC and bring in delay 2 with an expression pedal when you want that ATBL echo thing at 300ms by usin the expression to raise delay 2's level.
So technically speaking my rack woulda been really actually furman, tc, matrix, and two interfaces. 5 spaces.
But addin the mixer and the other two boxes I get more cool goodies extending my fx flavors more.
But anyone who has spent time tweakin for hours and days? With their face buried in front of a rack twifflin them buttons and data wheels? I always wished someone woulda just thrown some hints or settings out there and skip the chase.
Also Chelsea Constable demoing the bray got kick ass results with a boss se50 or 70. The GF is much more refined and powerful and I thought damn how she gettin that out of what is considered by fx box standards "a measely boss se half rack processor".
I was messin with a genuine pcm legendary box and just not quite gettin it all the way yet.
I went back to the simple sometimes laughed at TC GF and kept Chelsea's demo in mind usin that boss box. Poof!! Got it doin that thang all of a sudden. Its wet, its deep, its just the right tail length and attack and you can lay it on heavy without mushin out into garble.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/mF6XDNEWRXA/youtube]

I would attempt a vid with audio but it just overloads the crap outta the phone mic and sounds like straight static
When you turn 40, then find out you finally do have a child, a 25 year old beautiful daughter?? And.... GRANDKIDS!?! Thats AWESOME!!!!!

dirtycooter
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Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by dirtycooter » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:01 am

So got the PCM dialed "really close" here to kinda catch up to what was easily dialed in on the TC.
Its pickin C@#$ hairs really. Between the two its really hard to begin to tell especially with them roarin hard playin.
PCM is quieter machine though for residual background noise and blankness at idle.

Settings
Plate 4 voice I think!
Didn't check but here goes

Controls
0.0-100% mix
0.1-+4 FX Adjust
0.2-Full In Lvl
0.3-5.00 khz hi cut
0.4-Off Voice Diffusion
0.5-100%Reverb. FX mix
0.6-+45 stereo. FX Width
0.7 low limit :0 Low Limit
Rvb Time
1.0-0.2x. Low RT
1.1-1.03 sec Mid RT
1.2-9.91 khz. Crossover
1.3-8.89khz RT HC
1.4-100ms. Pre-delay
1.5-Full. Ref Lvl (if mono input left in panned center)
1.6-+0% Eko Fbk L
1.7-100% delay. Post Mix
Reverb Design
2.0-51.5 meters. Size
2.1-9%. Diffusion
2.2-100. Attack
2.3-Off. Spin
2.4-On. Link
2.5-+45 stereo. Rvb Width
2.6-Full. Rvb IN

All other shit is off or panned center or at 0 for rows 3,4,5,6

This is for wet dry setup settings. No mixed FX on original signal. Dry cab. Wet cab or stereo cabs.
When you turn 40, then find out you finally do have a child, a 25 year old beautiful daughter?? And.... GRANDKIDS!?! Thats AWESOME!!!!!

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Megaro
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Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by Megaro » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:50 pm

DC, I will plug those into my PCM 70 and see if they translate to the earlier version. I have the software version 3 and obtained the parameters for the Tile Room setting and punched that one in. Sounds great. Those old Lexys are super cool.
They program easily enough once you get used to the interface.

I went all kinds of overboard in my old rack, perhaps you can see a little EVH influence in there ?
Image

dirtycooter
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Re: EVH Reverb setting for TC G Force

Post by dirtycooter » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:44 am

Had a wild hair.
Got me some flashback toneprint delays.
Editor is awesome. Totally amazed.

So.... If those are kickin my ass with some amazing sounds :shrug:

Tried the Hall of Fame2.

Church setting. Adjust to taste. Predelay switch set to long.

There it is.
Bam! Done!

VH verb in a bud size pedal box.
In stereo if you want.
Quiet. Clean. Realistic. Deep. Lush. Warm. Simple.
Its almost as if they made this algo specifically for this purpose. Makes me wanna send Tore a valentines day card

It is gonna blow your mind I think. :rock:

If you wanna fool around in editor with it?

Use Ambient template.
Max the early settings at 0dB and make it about almost loud as your dry tone. Pull reverb level back to -4 to -8dB. Set your predelay (you can store 2 different short or long settings) to between anywhere between 70ms to 125ms.
Mine is 5.5dB on the reverb level and predelay is 98ms.

Beats anything in my PCM, MPX, and G Force hands down game over for this as a stand alone reverb doin vh verb.

Can it do pcm's deep space reverb? No way.
But its gonna do a badass vh verb you won't believe.
All for a cheap low price of $149.

Been dumbfounded for about a month here. But its a true story. Give it a try folks :wink:

You can use it at line level if you have an adjustable send.
I check mine with my mackie mixers meters to stay below the +8 dB clip point these pedals are stated to have.

Why this reverb in particular?

Simple.
They gave you control over early reflections slap vs reverb levels in one box. Makes all the difference in the world to me sonically.
No outboard delay or lag deck needed to make the verb anymore.
If you turn the reverb level all the way down and just use the early alone? Theres the slap delay they emulated long time ago for rockabilly and chicken picken.
So you could easily use this like an analog slap delay if you wanted.
But what this does is more authentic than what they tried to emulate with tape delays back then doing slap cause there is a very subtle but definite stereo dimension to it in the left and right fields thats happening so fast you'd never emulate it with delays alone. Sounds very natural and tight with out being to diffused.

They did this algo right spot on.
So simple its insane. And love this little red box.
Can it do all the other crazy shit like BigSky? No.
Pcm's deep space? No.
But it does do that "one thing" and does it like no tomorrow 8)
Check it out if you can.

Main thing about the vh verb is its a doubling slap first and foremost with a bit of air or breath supporting it.
Gives kinda of a bounce and room to play off of.
Listen to the iso tracks and pan over to just the right channel. Listen to it. Its more of a cloudy diffused slap than just reverb.

Of course in tone print you can turn down the early and turn up the reverb and get other things for other sounds.

I could care less about the shimmer-I personally hate shimmer myself. If I wanna play a synth I will go get one.
Don't give a shit about the mash biz either.

Basically there are only about 5 basic algos-room, hall, spring, plate, and church is same as ambient and used also in shimmer.
Plate has a flavor. Spring is its own thing. Room hall and church are simply different room sizes. So you can't adjust room size really. Its just preset algos which were tastefully chosen. Hall is more washy warm tail oriented.
Church and room work off more solid reflection patterns to get a sense of dimension like size and wall locations.
So basically 5 algo flavors. Then you can tweak and tweeze actually more so in the editor with more parameters than a BigSky but no where near as confusing as a PCM.
Pretty trick shit.
Highly under rated pedal here.

I think the reason new rack gear has not been produced much as so many are designing pedals straight and to the point, with better UI and set up in the ball park to what used to take hours and hours to seemingly dial in on a older machine. With warmer more lifelike character to boot.
Things are so much more powerful and compact now. I mean my PCM is over 20yrs old. Smart phones been around for about 10. Look how powerful they become in 10 years. Leaps and bounds over my old nextel flip phone.
So don't pass on these little tech marvels. Check them out.
When you turn 40, then find out you finally do have a child, a 25 year old beautiful daughter?? And.... GRANDKIDS!?! Thats AWESOME!!!!!

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