Anything off-limits?

marshman · Post by **marshman** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:13 am

I notice that a lot of the more interesting forums out here are 'owned' by folks that also own businesses involved with amplification. I have no problem with that, and in fact, I quite appreciate it. But I was reading a post at a forum (might have been here, honestly can't recall) about a guy that wanted an amp but was worried about a 50 watter being too loud and was concerned with adding a MV and/or an attenuator.

I thought that what this guy probably needs is an 18 or 20-watter, but I didn't wanna send away business from a guy trying to make a living. I don't think the host here does 18/20s, but I'd hate to send potential business away as a guest at his forum, as there are plenty of folks that do sell 18 AND 50/100 watt plexi-style products. At the time, I kept my yap shut.

Any comments? Thoughts? Suggestions?

clarkydaz · Post by **clarkydaz** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:17 am

i am quite suprised george doesnt do 18/20 watters actually.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:29 am

People here recomend 18 and 20 watters a lot. The thing is, the amps here are all about tone. I guess many people like the tone of 20wers but I think for the most part their popularity is about a compromise. Getting great cranked marshall tone without attenuators and in a smaller cheaper package (though some of these kit guys sell 18/20 amps damn near as expensive as Georges 100W kits.) They may sound rgeat in their own ways but Im not particularly a fan. The things I love about 100Wers is missing in 20Wers hell even 50Wers. And its not just raw power. Not many people here can really use a 100W anywhere without serious attenuation. Maybe their homes but certainly not gigs for most people. Ill stick a pair of yellow jackets in my 100Wer and I think it sounds better then a 20W even thought they are evenly matched at that point output-wise. If your giving real consideration to 18/20s then there are forums to go to where the members are more familiar and more into them. There are a few people here whove done them and I think a lot have played them but most here are about getting THE classic amps. 18/20 are kind of a new trend. Thats what the people here are into. The real deal.

I havent noticed people trying to scrounge up business for George though. This forum is full of people who love the big classic amps. Is it really a stretch to imagine why we would recomend these kindsa amps that we love to the person on a site for them to begin with while someone into 20w at a 18w/20w forum woul drecomend one of those amps?

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:50 am

I have no problem with you guys discussing and recommending other products here. I feel that my products are perfect for some applications, but they aren't right for everyone and everything. And you do have to look at your gear as a whole, which means looking at many products.

I have stayed away from the 18 watt stuff on purpose. Partially because I haven't had time to develop it. And partially as a courtesy to guys like Graydon. He has the 18 watt kit in a wonderful package, and he knows them inside and out.

George

marshman · Post by **marshman** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:56 am

Well, BB, ok, I see your point of view. I shall try to refrain from publicly telling folks to shop somewhere else for their amps/kits. The original post I was reading was a fellow newbie, so I thought he might like to know that there are options like the 18/20 out there.

I personally decided a few years ago that I would never need to buy another amp over 50 watts for guitar. I have an 18/20 hybrid (all hand-wired), a Rivera R30 and a Fender HRD. Do any of them sound like a Plexi at full tilt, no, but then again, I can crank that 18/20 full out and stay in the room with it. No doubt there are differences b/w the preamps, and the 34/84 differences are huge in themselves.

And if he's considering MV and/or an attenuator, is he really looking for true, unaltered Plexi tone?

marshman · Post by **marshman** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:00 pm

While I responded to BB, George chimed in...

Thanks for your understanding, VG. I don't wwant to hurt your gig here, but Some people are just needing something else.

Yes, you and Graydon don't overlap much, but some other dealers probably sell a lot of the same parts as you, blah, blah blah, I'm sure you get my drift.

Flames1950 · Post by **Flames1950** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:26 pm

That said, it wouldn't be a big stretch to adapt a JTM45 kit for 6V6's and get a "smaller" amp.......so we still recommend George.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:42 am

marshman wrote:Well, BB, ok, I see your point of view. I shall try to refrain from publicly telling folks to shop somewhere else for their amps/kits.

Noone said to do that. Tell people whatever you think. This is certainly not a place to censure opinions. But people here like the larger amps and get along fine with them and so their going to relay that to other people. Theres no agenda behind that. Hell I live in a Twin in a crowded section of Philadelphia and I wouldnt have anything other then a 100W if I had to have only one.

I just came back from having my amps run full out with no attenuation in a friends place with his full stack and at one point in a 10x10 room. I could stand it. But God.............. damn.

That said, if you will have a 50W amp, then you might as well have a 100W if you really want it. Their not that much louder.

mightymike · Post by **mightymike** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:36 am

I think your best bet is to get a 100 watter and an attenuator.
I like the Hot Plate.

This setup is very versatile.You can play anywhere with it.
You can just run it as 100 watter, or pull 2 tubes and it becomes a
50 watter. Hell there's even a member here that ran his 100 watter on 1 tube.

Personally I just crank it on 10 with all the tubes, and use the attenuator
to get any volume level I need, and even with the reduction in dynamics caused in the higher settings (-12db or more), it still sounds better than any 20, 36, or 50 watter I've heard. I could play in a small club with this setup no prob, but I have the option of going loud enough to make shit literal start shaking off the walls. I can also play low enough to play along with a LAPTOP!

If I was going to build a 20 watter, I would build another Rich amp, which is basicly a 20 watter with 2 extra power tubes to make it 36 watt.
They sound a little more fatter and plexi like than an 18 watter, and used the AC30 tranny set, but still not as good to my ears.

If I was going to build a smaller amp, I would like to build an AC30.
.

marshman · Post by **marshman** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:50 am

Well, Billy gave me the impression that it was uncool to send folks elsewhere. Then, VG chimed in and said it didn't hurt his feelings, so I figger if someone seems to be dying for a mini-Marshall, I'll send 'em 18 watts' way.

I hate this 'my rigs' better than your rig' shit, and try to avoid getting into it. I have my own ideas about what sounds goods, just like you do. I didn't mean to start down that road. I just wanted to know if anyone was gonna get mad at me for sending folks to another business for gear.

Billy--My wife and I just moved into a house on 4 acres of Chester County farmland largely surrounded by horses. Maybe I'll have you down this summer and we can point that monster into the distance and see what I'm missing.

M

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:10 pm

marshman wrote:Well, Billy gave me the impression that it was uncool to send folks elsewhere. Then, VG chimed in and said it didn't hurt his feelings, so I figger if someone seems to be dying for a mini-Marshall, I'll send 'em 18 watts' way.

Hmm. I read my post several times and I dont see how you could come away with that unless you want to and it sounds like you do for some unknown reason. Just trying to show you why people would not recomend the smaller amps and not because they want to help George out.

I hate this 'my rigs' better than your rig' shit, and try to avoid getting into it. I have my own ideas about what sounds goods, just like you do. I didn't mean to start down that road. I just wanted to know if anyone was gonna get mad at me for sending folks to another business for gear.

Coarse not. If you read further youll see members have done them and recomend them. But if someone wants the tone of a 100 Im not going to tell them to get a 20W even if it would be more sensible for them. Its no my rigs better then yours. Ive never seen any grandstanding here. If you think a 20W would be more practicle for you your an adult and you make that dicision. If you want a purely subjective opinion on what amp fits the tone you want Im gonna give it to you and I wouldnt suggest a 20W unless someone amde it clear that volume was a huge concern and they dont want to mess with attenuators.

Billy--My wife and I just moved into a house on 4 acres of Chester County farmland largely surrounded by horses. Maybe I'll have you down this summer and we can point that monster into the distance and see what I'm missing.

Id be glad to. Or even forget the pure volume of it. Just put in the EL84s. See what the difference is. Your taking this way too personal as an attack against 20Ws because people here prefer larger amps. I promise you noone here taht Ive ever seen has anything against 20Wers. Ive been vocal about the fact that I like the sound of headroom, especially int he low end, of 100Wers but that doesnt mean I think I htink my rigs better then yours. What are we children? Its a subjective bias. Everyone here has a larger amp and likes them and gets along with them. If you go to 18W.com those guys would say 100W are completely useless unless you play stadiums and small amps sound 95% the same. If thats what you want to hear thats a great place to go. Otherwise people here are going to be talking about their 45s 50s and 100s and recomending them. Sorry if that offends you as a member of the 20W community

I promise you there is no conspiracy to turn people away from 20W amps here

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:33 pm

mightymike wrote:If I was going to build a 20 watter, I would build another Rich amp, which is basicly a 20 watter with 2 extra power tubes to make it 36 watt. They sound a little more fatter and plexi like than an 18 watter, and used the AC30 tranny set, but still not as good to my ears.

Just curious, did you build your 36 based on the latest layout that Richie and I did with the push-pull pot for lifting the tonestack? Did you use regular AC30 trannies or did you get the bumped up version of the PT (290-0-290) from heybour?