For all you Christians don't look at this you might freakout

[toner]

Hi everyone. I knew I was sticking my neck out by saying the things I did.

I really appreciate the (mostly) respectful comments in return. My hope is that someone may read this with an open mind and maybe view Christianity differently than they may have in the past.

Below are some replies. I will try to avoid using this forum to discuss this in the future. PM me if you have any honest questions about Christianity. If I don't know the answer, I will do my best to find it for you.

Respectfully ,toner, if you honestly believe that you should probably crack that Bible open instead of just thumping it.

I was sharing some of the root truths about Christianity from the Bible that are often misunderstood. You don't have to take my word for it. Look for yourself.

Hey, I think I am starting to "see the light"! I didn't realize it before, but it all makes sense!
If I am a compassionate and good human, it means little in God's eyes. What DOES matter is if I have "accepted Jesus".
NOW I GET IT!!!...

Sarcasm aside, you have missed the point. ALL humans (me, you, Hitler, Billy Graham, etc.) are sinners that can only be forgiven by God through Jesus Christ. The Bible is very clear about the difference between "good works" and Salvation. That's not to say that they are opposites but the former does not guarantee the latter. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me.

Religion and the church is not something I want in my life, because I feel that if you have a personal relationship with God then that's good enough.

I understand what you're saying but I feel obligated to share this: The Bible teaches that the church is Christ's body. It's almost impossible for a Christian to have a personal relationship with God without wanting the church in their life.

[Tone Slinger]

Great post's guy's, I have picked up some great insights.
Here's some of my thoughts:

Blind Faith- A late 60's rock band including Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker, and Steve Winwood, etc.


Religion- Mans attempt to understand what he cannot.


I do believe that there is an alpha omega. Logic tells me that it probably isnt a 'Man', but maybe an energy field, or some other thing, that the mind of male domineering tribes, thousands of years ago could not comprehend.

I laugh when people say that they dont 'FEAR' death. Hell, life is all we've ever known. For example,

Say your walking down a wooded trail, and you just happen to look down, and spot a snake at your feet,....... SHIT!, you jump way up in the air, your adrenaline pumps, and your heart rate increases. You get away from it. This is INSTINCT, based on
hundreds of thousands of years, of our ancestery (mammal)getting bitten and DYING. We dont wanna die, and this instinct proves that. We fear death, 'cause we do not understand it.

Humans are curious they need answer's (obviously, even if thier not 'correct')


I drive down the road and see a sign "Good without God = 0". That is so offensive to me. Also, its Saturday, and me and my family are having Ice Cream. On every corner of the street there's guy's 'Harrasing' people with signs that read "Prepare to meet thy maker". Now is that dumb or what, that sounds like a THREAT to me !


I'll sum it all up with this. I think it was Plato that said this when asked by another........... Plato was asked "What do you think of the towns peoples religion (Athens), with thier GODS and all (philosiphers were not religios)". Plato's response was "I do not care what they believe, but I do care, when they teach it to thier children" This explains a whole lot.

[OnTheFritz]

LOL, I had a feeling this topic was going to take a turn!

I was raised a Christian, but I can honestly say with all my heart, I am not a believer, and have not been one for a very long time. I respect others beliefs though.
For me it started as a kid, I was always "Question Quigley" about everything, and when I asked a bunch of questions about religion at about age 10-ish, I was told to stop asking, it's the truth, and thats all there is to it!!
Questions to my Grandparents went kinda like this abridged version:

Me:
We're praying to God here and Jesus there, why both?

Them:
Jesus is Gods only son, and he died for our sins so we can all go to heaven.

Me:
But if we're all Gods children, how can he be Gods only son?

Them:
He is God, in the flesh, and he died for you!!!!

Me:
Then why don't we just pray to God?

Them:
Stop asking these questions!!!!!!!
He died for you and that's that!!!!!:evil:

Me:
Shrugs shoulders and walks away from pissed off Parents/Grandparents with even more unanswered questions!!

That's just the simple musings of a 10 year old kid mind you, but to me they were honest questions that needed valid concrete answers, and the more I thought about it all the less sense it all made.
Things like:
What about the thousands of generations of people that existed before Jesus did, were they doomed?
And what about all the people that existed during his time, and afterwards that never knew about him based on geography, other teachings, etc?
To me a just God doesn't work that way, and lately due to a "born again" friend trying to save me, I've done a great deal of research into the formation of Christianity, and it was a real eye opener!

So I guess like eargasm and Billy Batz (and others), since I haven't accepted Jesus as my lord and savior, I too am fucked.
Regardless, I'll still go on treating people the way I want to be treated, be compassionate, love my dog like he has a soul, and be the most honest, decent person I can be.

[Billy Batz]

Please dont let this thread go any farther. Its embarassing to see threads locked out right and left like the Gear Page or HC.

This is a forbidden subject in most sites and you knew where this was heading the minute you read the topic.

[fillmore nyc]

Just a side note, in as much as many of us seem to have our asses in a knot over this thread and the direction it seems to be taking, I dont think I've seen another thread that got so much attention so quickly. Its a passionate discussion to be sure, but thank (insert your own person of worship here **) we are all in a position to HAVE this discussion, and our own individual points of view in the first place. For real, we all hear of the places in the world that people are killed for having voiced these kind of opinions publicly. This discussion is not even permitted on most other forums!! (The Gear Page ). I think its appropriate that we all should have our own solid POV, and just as appropriate that we should be thankful to have this place to air our POV's, without much restriction. Seems like a good thing to think about when we get pissed that someone else is not following us down the same road we're on. They're ALLOWED to do that, thank (**).

[Billy Batz]

Its not about censurship and this isnt a democracy anyway. This is someones private website you have to join and I doubt they like having to lock threads. It says Metro Amps not metro metaphysics or metro philosophy. Its just pointless. Pointless to talk about it here because we all know how it will end. Locked. That is how it became a forbidden subject. Theres more useful places to have philosophical debates thena n amp forum. These threads never end nicely.

[fillmore nyc]

Its not about censurship and this isnt a democracy anyway. This is someones private website you have to join and I doubt they like having to lock threads. It says Metro Amps not metro metaphysics or metro philosophy. Its just pointless. Pointless to talk about it here because we all know how it will end. Locked. That is how it became a forbidden subject. Theres more useful places to have philosophical debates thena n amp forum. These threads never end nicely.

Well, Ill prove you wrong on that. Thank you for the wake up call, because you happen to be 100% right about that. I'll back out of this thread gracefully as of this post.

[Billy Batz]

Well, Ill prove you wrong on that. Thank you for the wake up call, because you happen to be 100% right about that. I'll back out of this thread gracefully as of this post.

[fillmore nyc]

(I lied)

[Billy Batz]

Well at least its just us knuckleheads and not any crusaders.

[OnTheFritz]

Well at least its just us knuckleheads and not any crusaders.

Haha, I think this forum is a bit different that others like the PP for example. The members here have a huge common denominator, and it really seems rare that threads get outta control, but I do see your point in your previous post.
Religion and politics can be extremely volatile with differing points of view.
Peace!

[fillmore nyc]

Well at least its just us knuckleheads and not any crusaders.

Someday knuckleheads will rule the world... (is today someday????) / / /

[Bluesgeetar]

Well I tell you. I wasn't nearly as disturbed by the religion clip as I was by the TAX clip. I feel like crap living in America. I can't beleive that me and every other middle class Joe is actually a slave. So now we know. Slavery isn't dead here. Now I know what the "All men are created" speech was about. The government wanted to make sure that to be fair, every man of every color should be a slave for the the government and it's corporate backers.

Anyone check this baby out lately!?

www.xe.com

See how our great and mighty dollar stacks up against everyone else! We are now almost a third world country. Europeans and now Canadians and Japanese and Koreans and Tiawanese come here to get better deals on shopping. But don't worry I am sure more is yet to come before we have had enough and decide to kick our governments ass and set shit straight.

[fillmore nyc]

Well I tell you. I wasn't nearly as disturbed by the religion clip as I was by the TAX clip. I feel like crap living in America. I can't beleive that me and every other middle class Joe is actually a slave. So now we know. Slavery isn't dead here. Now I know what the "All men are created" speech was about. The government wanted to make sure that to be fair, every man of every color should be a slave for the the government and it's corporate backers.

Anyone check this baby out lately!?

www.xe.com

See how our great and mighty dollar stacks up against everyone else! We are now almost a third world country. Europeans and now Canadians and Japanese and Koreans and Tiawanese come here to get better deals on shopping. But don't worry I am sure more is yet to come before we have had enough and decide to kick our governments ass and set shit straight.

+1, AND... the thread takes a hard left turn, and here we go again!!! (cool!!)

[5150loveeddie]

So that 16th Amendement is it real? You don't have to pay tax return on your income (labor..)?