Metropoulos Forum

Now I have always considered myself a tough guy. I work in the second largest insane asylum in the USA. I am in a knock down drag out with someone that would rather rape and cut me into little pieces and some even eat me at least 1 to 2 times a week. I read this article and I actually cried. I feel this beautiful country slipping away. This is so horrible. I can't even fathom how bad we are being screwed. Sorry if it bums any of you out as much as me. I have family that has fought in the French and Indian war all the way up to the current Iraq Occupation. It was all in vain. I'm not a pussy, I just love my country.

Iraq corruption whistleblowers face penalties
One after another, the men and women who have stepped forward to report corruption in the massive effort to rebuild Iraq have been vilified, fired and demoted. Or worse.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20430153/from/ET/

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

zaphod777 wrote:Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Great post zaphod777.
Military Industrial Complex says it all.

Very nice post zaphod777. If only Dwight could see us now.

This kind of thing has existed since the beginning of civilization and is niether new to this country nor representative of "where we are now". It goes on under liberals and conservatives alike. Consider the source, consider the axes to grind, and then consider what goes on in the rest of the world worthy of tears. While good men do great work, wretches claw at their heals crying foul all the time. Neither is that anything new.

Thanks for sharing that. It is sad but I agree that it's nothing new. People have been lying and screwing things up since they were created! (I apologize in advance to any agnostics.)

toner wrote:Thanks for sharing that. It is sad but I agree that it's nothing new. People have been lying and screwing things up since they were created! (I apologize in advance to any agnostics.)

Well I have many hippie friends from the 60s and know alot of old vets and they all agree that this present government is the worst they have ever seen. I mean digest it. You try to help the government by reporting someone ripping them off and they throw you in prison or fire you and pretty much destroy your life for what you think is trying to help them and your country. Why? Because we don't have a government!!!!!!!!! We have alot of rich folks sharing and living high on the hog with our hard earned tax dollars from the lower classes of America. These people stood up for the little guys (you and I), cause it was our money being ripped off. I think they deserve a little more sympathy. In this day and age no one stands up for us lower class Americans especially our government. But these people did trying to keep the tax payer from getting the shaft.

In this day and age no one stands up for us lower class Americans especially our government.

Couldn't agree more.

My own town has been hemorrhaging good working class jobs since the 70's

I have watched as countless friends and relatives have gone from being working middleclass, to the working poor.

Free Trade, and NAFTA have/continue to, gut the working class of this country.

Bluesgeetar wrote:

toner wrote:Thanks for sharing that. It is sad but I agree that it's nothing new. People have been lying and screwing things up since they were created! (I apologize in advance to any agnostics.)

In this day and age no one stands up for us lower class Americans especially our government.

Some really good posts here. Goes to show that maybe we're NOT the ones who are lower class. IMO, the lowest form of life is one that will take advantage of another, completely devoid of conscience, just because they are in a position to be able to do so. Lack of compassion IS lack of humanity, and people that would treat others with such indifference, IMO, ARE less than human, and unfortunately, show us that our lineage connecting us to animals is closer that we would care to believe.

I read that story months ago. Don't believe everything you read. He could very well be the lier.

Bluesgeetar wrote:Well I have many hippie friends from the 60s and know alot of old vets and they all agree that this present government is the worst they have ever seen...

I would agree with that. We have strayed very far from our founding father's visions but Americans of all classes still have it pretty good compared to a lot of people in other countries.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I don't want to start a religion argument. There's enough of that in the world. However, the fact is that America was founded by people with strong Christian beliefs and values. Yet, our government has gradually tried to "ban" Christianity. It's ironic that church and state are separated but our Constitution is full of Christian beliefs and our currency has "In God We Trust" printed on it. Okay, enough of that!

Sometimes it's helpful to step back and look at things from a wider perspective. Can you imagine living in a country where you can be legally killed for your religious/social/ethical values or practices? How about living in a country that dictates how many children you can have? Would you like to live in a country where only people of certain "classes" have full legal rights? (I admit, we're headed in that direction, unfortunately.)

In spite of our government's failures and corruption, we have a LOT of freedoms that some people can only dream of. Hopefully enough people will hold onto those freedoms and use their right to vote AND have their vote actually counted.

As fucked up as it is the USA is still the best place to live!

On another note not even one of the greatest civilizations in history (Rome) eventually fell. Is that where we are headed?

I am hopeful that the next administration can undo a lot of the damage that Bush has done such as:

Are the poor getting poorer and rich getting richer since Bush took over?
Is the US national debt increasing or decreasing since Bush took over?
Is it safer to travel abroad as a US citizen since Bush took over?
Is the US dollar stronger or weaker since Bush took over?

I am truly astounded that an assassination attempt on Bush hasn't happened yet. When you look at what he has accomplished, he definitely has not put the USA in an enviable position in the world.

I apologize to those Republicans and to those who believe otherwise about my thoughts on this. Though I am Canadian, we are joined at the hip so-to-speak. Some may say that I have no business to comment. Perhaps that's true. I have a great respect for the US, and hope that things get better. It's not all bad these days but it's been better.

To my brothers nextdoor in the US, a heartfelt God Bless America!

Cole

Sorry, I cant help but reply.

the fact is that America was founded by people with strong Christian beliefs and values.

Yes, The same people who systematically lied to, stole from, and killed the godless heathen's(Native Americans), until we owned nearly every last bit of there homeland.
They only followed those beliefs and values, when it served there interests.
I have Profound respect for some of the things our founders did/said/thought, but in other ways, they where flawed like all of us.

our government has gradually tried to "ban" Christianity.

I don't know of a single law that keeps christian's from practicing there religion, in there own lives.

It's ironic that church and state are separated but our Constitution is full of Christian beliefs and our currency has "In God We Trust" printed on it.

God exists in at least 95% of the worlds religions. Christian morals which boil down to, do not kill, do not steal, and treat your fellow man as you would have him treat you, also exist in most of the worlds religions.

Christians do not own God, Morals, or Marriage. These ideas are universal. Universally ignored more often than not, but still not owned by any one group.

I was raised christian, most of my family and friends are christian, and most of them are good, honest people. I do not subscribe to any organized religion.

In spite of our government's failures and corruption, we have a LOT of freedoms that some people can only dream of. Hopefully enough people will hold onto those freedoms and use their right to vote AND have their vote actually counted.

In my lifetime alone, the gov has steadily widdled away at those freedoms(I can think of many), slow enough that people just seem to be oblivious.

I haven't felt like my vote counted at any point during my voting life. Neither party represents me.

Ben Franklin

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power

As fucked up as it is the USA is still the best place to live!

Whenever I see this statement I see it as an outpouring of national pride(nothing wrong with that.
I have no desire to live anywhere else. Some of my ancestors have lived here since well before recorded time. This is our home. Always will be.
But,
Unless we have lived many different places, around the world, and been there long enough to truly become a part of that culture/country,
How can we know this is the Best place to live in the world?
Newfoundland Might? be the best place to live, how can one know without FULLY experiencing it for themselves?

Though I am Canadian, we are joined at the hip so-to-speak. Some may say that I have no business to comment.

Its good to get a view from a distance(small distance, but still).


Forgive me gentlemen, I started my vacation today(unpaid), lotsa of free time, and quit smoking, I'm a little on edge. No feather ruffling intended.



Ultimately

I'm here for the TONE!!!!

So Say We All!

zaphod777 wrote:

the fact is that America was founded by people with strong Christian beliefs and values.

Yes, The same people who systematically lied to, stole from, and killed the godless heathen's(Native Americans), until we owned nearly every last bit of there homeland.

I understand and agree with you there.

zaphod777 wrote:

our government has gradually tried to "ban" Christianity.

I don't know of a single law that keeps christian's from practicing there religion, in there own lives.

There are laws that ban Christianity in public places. The wording may not directly challenge Christians but their effect does just that.

zaphod777 wrote:

It's ironic that church and state are separated but our Constitution is full of Christian beliefs and our currency has "In God We Trust" printed on it.

God exists in at least 95% of the worlds religions

Which "god"? The "good, moral teachers" or the one God who created us? If you were raised Christian and are a believer, you know that "God exists in at least 95% of the world's religions" is not really true.

zaphod777 wrote:Christians do not own God, Morals, or Marriage. These ideas are universal.

Marriage IS a Christian practice. There are similar practices in other religions but it's NOT the same thing.

zaphod777 wrote:I'm here for the TONE!!!!

So Say We All!

Yes! I really don't want to offend anyone. I'm sorry if you don't agree with my beliefs or vice versa. That's not why I'm here and I will try to stay out of this type of discussion in the future.