PayPal Refund Process Rant #4,123,599...

[Scumback Speakers]

PAYPAL RANT MODE ON:

Sheesh, they are idiots. A client buys two speakers, changes his order to another model, so I owe him a refund on one.

No problem.

Go to my paypal account, someone has just ordered the exact same speaker from me that matches the amount I need to refund.

Simple, eh? One speaker payment in, one matching speaker payment refund out.

OH HELL NO! NOT GOOD OLD F**KING PAYPAL.

They check your account balance first. If you have less than the full refund in your account they take it out of your checking account and delay the refund to your client for five days.

Now, I'm sure some of you are wondering (as I did) why they did that?

Well, it's like this. Even after they take their $5 plus in fees out of the original payment (or your balance, either way, leftover from an identical amount paid), they don't credit you for the refunded fees until after it's processed.

So if you do a refund to someone, you have to have the full payment amount in your paypal balance, THEN paypal refunds the fees to your account. You'd think their software would be smart enough to figure out "Hey, we have to refund the fees anyway, why not do the simple math, and not force the client to cover OUR ass on the fees until after it's processed."

Uh, no...that would be the right/correct/fair thing to do...but no.

So I call PayPal to complain, let them know there is a bug in their software refund script/procedure, whatever.

The rep goes over my account and says..."You didn't have the funds to do the whole refund. Only the balance plus the refunded fees we owed you would have matched that."

I say "Right. Why not precalculate what you know you have to refund and just do it in one fell swoop? Wouldn't that be easier?"

"Uh...gee, I guess so."

"Uh...gee, no shit. You GUESS SO? WTF? Don't I do enough business with you guys? I'm probably getting a payment which covers that $5 plus right now, for Pete's sake!"

"As a matter of fact, Mr. Seavall, a payment of $358 just came in."

"See what I mean? Can we stop the refund so I can get my client his money back today instead of making him wait five days for you guys to yank it from my checking account?"

"Once the refund process has started we can't stop it."

"Right...that's great. So in a matter of the five minutes it took to explain to you why your software is crap and refunds aren't processed correctly to my client, the whopping $5 plus difference is already covered and there's nothing you can do to stop it, right?"

"I'm sorry, Mr. Seavall."

"Yeah...you're right, you and paypal are pretty sorry."

Moral of the story...always leave $15-20 in your account in case you have to do a refund to cover the fees they don't credit you up front.

AHOLES...sheesh.

/RANT

[jerrydyer]

I feel that pain...I use it as a last , way last resort.

[HTH]

I don't think you'll find many people jump in here to defend Paypal - everyone knows someone who's had trouble with Paypal, yet everyone still keeps on using them

How about setting up a merchant account Jim so your customers can just pay you direct from their credit/debit card?

[miguel]

They check your account balance first. If you have less than the full refund in your account they take it out of your checking account and delay the refund to your client for five days.

Yup, it's a racket! The fees to the seller are hefty enough, then to add insult to injury, they make more money on the "float time" when they sit on funds you transfer into your paypal account while the "transfer clears."

Yet when you make a purchase the money somehow magically flies out of your account without delay.

[Scumback Speakers]

I don't think you'll find many people jump in here to defend Paypal - everyone knows someone who's had trouble with Paypal, yet everyone still keeps on using them

How about setting up a merchant account Jim so your customers can just pay you direct from their credit/debit card?

The problem with the merchant account is that chargebacks, fraudulent use of cards, and the extra fees to handle the direct merchant account are more than the paypal fees. I checked. If I were to do $25-30K worth of credit cards per month then the fees come down to the paypal level (2.9%) with their added "terminal costs", "monthly maintenance fees", and the fees needed to have a separate bank account to deal with the terminal/merchant account, etc.

I went over this as recently as three months ago, so I doubt it's changed dramatically since November.

For those in California it's really a rape and pillage...9.75% sales tax, etc. I tell everyone who wants a speaker here to just pay cash if they can. Some can...most can't, so they get raped with the whole deal...shipping/sales tax/etc.

It's a no win situation so far...but I'm going to keep checking.

[fillmore nyc]

I don't think you'll find many people jump in here to defend Paypal - everyone knows someone who's had trouble with Paypal

I've gotten beat from PP when they claimed "Full Buyer Protection" ( )
I lost an expensive Fluke Digital Volt meter (and the money it cost) cause the Post Office claims it was delivered to my house...

A TEMP Christmas-time employee, delivering hundreds of packages a day (questioned days later) says that he recalls leaving a package in my porch that didnt even require signature. Yeah, OK.

SOMEONE got a nice Fluke meter "on the house".

As long a package is scanned "Delivered" by the carrier, you're shit outta luck as far as getting any money back from PP... meaning if they leave it at the wrong house and no one returns it, or even the carrier himself decides to steal your item... as long as they say it was delivered??

"Sorry sir... we show that your package was delivered"... no tickey, no shirty.

Friggin' buncha bulllshit.

[worldoftone]

I bought my credit card machine/terminal. I have a business account setup so that funds from the machine go directly into that account. Fees for me vary, but transactions usually average 1.5% or so. Granted I do very little shipping, but I really have had no problems with taking credit cards in the past three years. PAYPAL is a freaking joke. I mainly use it for buying stuff on eBay. I generally don't accept it for business transactions because the fees are too high.

[Doug H]

Well, as a buyer I hope marchants don't stop using it. I don't own a credit card, and if I did I wouldn't be happy using it across the net. Paypal is convenient as hell, nothing's perfect.

Most of the stuff I've had delivered, if no one's home it ends up at the postoffice, this is like small packages too a lot of the time. I don't sign, I didn't get it.

[jcs]

I dont own a credit card either (haven't for 20 years) and am happy to have PP as an option but i rarely use it as a buyer,mainly as a seller.