Nash = best playing/sounding "new" Strats closest to my '63

[worldoftone]

Well, I had messed around with the notion of finding a guitar that would be close to my original '63 Strat. I played 50 or 60 Fender CS Strats. Bought one that I thought was pretty good. Used it a LOT, but it really didn't hit the mark. And that was the best out of the CS guitars that I played. I picked up a Nash and just briefly strummed on it a few months ago at Spacetone Music here in SA. Thought it got pretty damn close to the mark. Jason had two of them, but he sold them pretty quick before I had time to get back there and try them out. On Saturday he had a relic sunburst there. I picked it up and was stunned at the weight and the playability of the guitar. Played and felt EXACTLY like my '63. Jason said he had two more coming in today. So, I took my '63 Start and my '58 Bassman down there to do a comparison. I tried a sunburst model with Fralin "Fat '58" (I think) PUs, and a Seafoam Green with Lollar "Blackface" PUs. There was also a Sonic Blue w/the same Lollars. I did a "playability" test on all three. They all felt "60s". Had the right profile, RIGHT STRING TENSION (which is real hard to duplicate I've found) and real good resonance.

For the sound test, I used my '63, the Seafoam Green and the sunburst. They all played great and sounded similar . . . in that early 60s vein. The Lollar P/Us sounded good but with more "hi-fi" tone to them. A bit more midrange and high-end clarity than I feel should be in a vintage P/U. The Fralins were more aggressive and extremely well balanced. It surprised me they were better balanced than my 'original axe, especially the bridge. They also "punched" like my '58 does. Hmmm . . . freaking GREAT! The sunburst came closest to my '63 for sure.

I was surprised and delighted with all the guitars. The sunburst will be making it's way here me thinks!

- WOT

[basile865]

cool!

Wasnt aware of fralin fat 58 pickups.

I've looked at Nash guitars and heard nothing but great things, BUT you cant get them in a 7 1/4 radius which sorta killed it for me.

[yngwie308]

WOT, interesting that you bring up "RIGHT STRING TENSION" as that is the key to a Strat, I know you know that, but it's great to hear it said. That's what I look for myself and I still remember my 1965 Transition logo, my first guitar and have rarely played one, real or not that 'felt' like that since.
What in your opinion is the combination of factors that produce the feel. The 25.5" scale definitely is the feel I like the best, the added tension of the strings, in 440, is what makes a Strat. If this Nash is close, is it the neck set, the vintage style bridge, the tuners, nut, the combination of these things.
I know a lot of people dismiss the Fullerton early Vintage Reissues, (not me), but my 1983 '57 nails that feel and the $$$$ Eric Clapton Blackie I played side by side my Blackie, felt the same, they even weighed the same!
What I was telling basile about the CS '69's, there are only so many of them that have the right combination of things to feel like a great Strat.
Even Fender can't make the right Strat all the time, as you have found out, playing so many of them.
Good point of discussion here, thanks for bringing that up, as you are the man with Strats as far as I'm concerned!!
Here is a great '65 Strat I snapped at the Philly Summer show last year, I couldn't bring myself to play it as I would be jonesing!

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Here is the album so you can see the pictures correct size, even when I remote link them they are resized
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yngwie308
yngwie308

[basile865]

I got to play a real 68 strat once and I wasn't too impressed. But also they had me playing through this stupid ass battery powered crate amp that has like 5 inch speakers. So I havent had the pleasure of really messing on a fully vintage strat into a good tube amp. Until then I keep telling myself theyre just like other good new ones.

[NY Chief]

Ross, you gotta compare it to a Rory Gallagher. As I have told you when I got the '64 I was very suprised and how closely the Rory felt like the real thing. Only thing is the '64 sounded better, more open. I'm wondering if those Fralin 58's would put it in the ball park. George bought his Nash partially based on the feel compared to when he played my RG as well.

Billy Batz gets some great tones out of his Callaham H/SRV pickups and I'm still interested in the Bare Knuckles Irish Tour (per yngwie Dave! ) as well.

edit...hmm no 58's on Fralin's site. Maybe the Real 54's?

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[VelvetGeorge]

Nice WOT! The Nash stuff is killer! Mine smoked all the Fender CS stuff at Elderly Instruments.

I really want a Nash Tele too.

Chief's RG is bad ass too. Before I got the Nash I was trying to figure what I had to sell to get one of those.

george

[NY Chief]

And George's Nash sounded GREAT through the Metro 45/100 at the LA Amp Show!

[worldoftone]

Right . . . maybe they are "Real 54's". Dunno. All I know is that guitar surprised the hell outta me.

Thinking of getting one in Fiesta Red with the Fralins.

- WOT

[electricskychurch]

it's interesting you say the orginal 64 sounds more open than the rory cause most of the actual ( post 2000) vintage style strats i have had / have (mark knopfler tested with several fender pu's, eric johnson with AV62 neck tested with several fender pu's , CS60 & CS66 for which i bought an original 65' pu ) are quiet open sounding and i noticed the original ones i tried ( early 63, 63/64 and a 66 hard tail ) were less bright and more pleasing through a marshall amp at least.
i suppose the fact the early 63 i tried and my 63/64 one have a neck that is quiet thin (not deep ) is part of it .
i noticed i usualy tried to get less brightness from vintage style fender (actual ) guitars, whereas i couldn't get that bell like tone as much with the american standard serie .
i think many actual strats are quiet bright, i like them more sweet sounding but still with that bell like tone, unlike Gibson guitars that i like to have some brightness as they are ususaly naturaly less bright than strats.
that's true that the string tension is influencing the tone (and playability) but in another hand when you see how some people setup their strats to have the trem resting on the body (with 5 springs) or the particular strings gauge Hendrix was using (not a regular set but several strings from different types of sets, without speaking of the upside down neck and all ) and when you hear some guys like Hendrix, SRV, allen collins, billy Gibbons (i think he was using strats at the time of "La grange" ), or Gilmour and Beck (at least when he was still using vintage ones ), they must all have different setup and strats but all sound good and have THE strat tone .

[worldoftone]

Only thing is the '64 sounded better, more open.

That is what I see consistently across the board. Newer Strats don't seem to "breathe" like vintage ones. Although I HAVE seen examples like what skychurch is talking about, I would have to say that they definitely are in the minority. That is another issue which I haven't really talked about too much, but another main reason I don't own any newer Strats.

The newest one I do own is my '91 Japanese '72 RI. That freaking guitar is horrid about not being "open". But, I've had the thing so freaking long that I just can't bear to part with her. I have experimented with p/u's and saddles. She is now fitted with a '76 harness + '76 p/u's and later Fender saddles. She is better but I still want to try other things. I am going to get her refretted then try a Callaham bridge at some point. I think it may be the wood . . .

- WOT

[electricskychurch]

it's really interesting to read you guys !
cause i have had 4 american standard strats (one i sold in the early 90's, i don't really remember it) among which a 95 and 97' ones (with neck not as deep as actual ones) as well as a 2004 model that was the 50th anniversary 54-2004 american strat standard limited edition model with teh custom 54 pu's that were only sold on the custom shop 54 limited edition sold for 6000 $ or so ..
all 3 didn't have the vintage strats bell like tone but were sounding ok / good with bright amps .
the worst was the 50th anniversary , it was very dull sounding (much more than the others that were not bad guitars for that type of guitars ) whereas it had ash body and maple neck (the two 90's ones were alder and rosewood ) !
i tried some 57/62 pu's in the 50 th anniv but it didn't help , nor the CS69 pu's.
i finaly thought the bridge / trem was part of the problem (i know now that it was maybe not the only specificity of those guitars that were the cause ! LOL) and sold all of them and bought a mark knopfler strat.
i didn't like the CS texas specials and after i tried 57/62 and CS69' pu's, i came to teh conclusion it was maybe too bright with some original plexi amps (especilaly the post 69 ones and teh actual clones whatever circuits) or early metal panels and original greenback g12h30 75 hz, when using the amps with treble and presence on 5 except with my 66' park45 /kt66 and 66 jtm45/100 / kt66.
for a while i didn't really tried to tweak my amps as i thought it had to sound good with presence , mids and treble on 5 (and volume between 7 and 10 , bass about 3 or 4) ! LOL
i have tried that mark knopfler strat (lightweight ash body ) with my jtm45 clone with mustard and marstran 103 OT (good OT but bright sounding) , with teble and presence on 3 but it was still too bright and lacking warmth and overtones !
then i tried some original early 63 from a friend and his 66 (this one is a hardtail model ) that were sounding less bright , much better , still with treble and presence on 3 on that amp and same g12h30 grenback pre or early rola.
i also bought a custom shop 66 strat NOS (2006 but as new) second hand recently as well as a 2008 CS 60 strat closet classic ( nice price ) as well as a strat i built with eric johnson body and pu's ( i removed teh pu's , i didn't like them and tried 57/62 that were too bright in teh mids and then settled with some CS 69 in it) , but using an american vintage 62 neck .
the CS66 was teh less bright but still a bit more than enough high end ( i finaly put an original 65 enamel winding pu in teh bridge with 6,4 k which sounds a bit better than the 5,6k or so stock one) , the CS60 has the most high end response of the lot (not high mids, really high end) while the EJ body/ AV62 neck /CS69 pu's was sort of in between with those sort of heavy honky mids i had in the knopfler but quiet less bright from what i remember.
but all are having more than enough top end , more than the original 63/64 refin , with formvar pu's i bought recently as well .
i bought several strats recently, all for a reasonable price , to be able to make a choice and possibly sell some as i could not try them first as i bought abroad, they are too expensive in France and few second hand time machine or vintage ones !
on top of that , here they just have the relic ones in the shops, that are the most expensive ones .
i don't like relic ( LOL) ! although i like my original 63/64 that is reliced naturaly but a true one with a great two tone sunburst (from the 70's i suppose) that's not accurate but lovely and not artificialy reliced .
sorry guys i thinks its mostly a marketing things (although i understand some people prefer damaged / aged guitars even when new and i respect their choice , just not mine ) and when i read some are stuck with their bridge screws that are broken in the wood as they are too rusty or other stupid things like that on new guitars ...!
back to the tone (sorry i digressed ! LOL) , so with my experience, i thought most actual custom shop time machine or american vintage guitars were bright but you seem to say the contrary, that is to say that most are sounding dull.
so if what you seem to say is true , maybe my actual strats are better than i thought cause it still possible to remove some treble when you have the bell like tone (at least up to a certain point) but it's quiet hard or even impossible to bring it in if you don't have that bell tone to start with.
i have swapped the necks on the CS60 , EJ with AV62 neck and the 63/64 ones, it seems the neck is more important to teh tone than teh body, i would say maybe 70/30 .
the CS 60 body with CS60pu's and AV62 neck had more body, less high end but the honky mids of that neck came with it while the EJ with CS69 pu's had more high end with teh CS60 neck .
the CS60 neck brought also more high end on my original 63/64 one.
i remember i had tried two custom shop 60 through a blues deluxe or so , in a shop a few years ago (maybe 5 or 6) and i remember i thought they were dull sounding and the neck might have been less deep than the 2008 i have now (but that just souvenirs and i didn't have the experience i now have with guitars and amps )

[yngwie308]

This is all great stuff, but why does a vintage Strat feel the way it does, 90% the neck I would say...
yngwie308

[electricskychurch]

yes, the neck is really important but personnaly after the necks swapp i did recently on my guitars i would not say more than 70% .
the body has a consequence , as do the pu's.
you can see that many strat pu's measure differently in teh vintage ones.
the ones in my 63/64 go from 6.2 or 6.3 to +/- 6,6k (and they don't sound like high output pu's ) but some can measure much less and be much brighter i suppose so depending on the guitar itself, it may sound too bright if teh guitar is naturaly bright sounding unplugged or softer if the guitar isn't bright to start with .
i think it's all a complement but the neck is the most important .
you can make a strat sound less bright by just swappning neck that will have more consequence in the freq response of the guitar than if you swap for some pu's of the same type but putting some hotter pu's might tame the tone down as well (but might not give you teh tone you want ! LOL ).
the problem is that it's not easy to know what tone you will have just looking at a neck ! LOL

[worldoftone]

OK. The Nash had Fralin "Vintage Hots" in it.

So I was wrong all around LOL! That does make sense since the output was noticebley hotter/fatter than my '63. So, take that for what it's worth. Tonally that model was still the closest.

- WOT

[Froumy]

Damn WOT!

What'll that make? 15 of them? . You definitely have some backgound to offer an opinion on a Strat. Thanks for the info! Seems the Nash is relatively affordably, too.

An old friend of mine makes D'pergo guitars. He offered me a loaner, but I refused for fear of falling for a 4K+ guitar. Crazy what he's doing, though(500 yr old wood ). The Nash is less frightening in the $$ respect. Good to know someone is making something close to the original, that a regular guy can swing. I'll give 'em a go before my next one....