losing highs with bumblebees...

[Rickey_Dee]

Funny.....the '54 pic shows the center lug of the tone pot soldered to the casing like the instructions that came with his bumblebee kit said to do........

yeah, pretty funny, huh? ... it's also soldered to the middle lug of the tone pot... like i had it before. i wonder if this '54 also loses some treble when rollin back the volume.

anyway, i couldn't see jim's pic too, but i just wired it the other way than it was in the instructions, and it worked in the end.

[Scumback Speakers]

I renamed it and fixed the other posts with the link. Hopefully you'll see it now. Can't explain why I could see it, though...odd, stuck in the cache of my browser maybe.

[myfoot]

Yep works fine now..Thanks Jim!

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

I just wired my Les Paul to the specs in Jim's picture, and I really dig it. The clean sound is just phenomenol. It was ok before, but kinda muffled, and now it's clear a bell.

Thanks Jim.


Travis

[Scumback Speakers]

You're welcome Travis!

[Frank_Heritage]

Hi Jim,

are you really shure, that your above picture shows what is called "50s wiring"?
If I take a look over to The Les Paul Forum, where are thousands of topics concerning the pros and cons of wiring a LP this or that way.

As far as I remember, a 50s wiring looks exact the way Rickey_Dee showed us with the Luxe caps.

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showt ... hp?t=88796

But anyway: If the way you showed sounds much better for someone, it doesn't matter how its called.

[Scumback Speakers]

I posted a pic of a 59 burst control cavity. That's what it was in 59, anyway. What they did in 54 with P90's could be something else, but that's another discussion. That pic came from my luthier who authenticates Bursts for Guitar Center Hollywood. If he doesn't know then I'm in trouble!

In any event, that's what he calls it, and the proof/results are in the wiring I described. Can't really say what everyone at the LPF says, but that's what works for my tone. God knows I've tried them all! LOL

[Frank_Heritage]

After I got my bumblebees a few month ago (my are also from Luxe) I did what they called 50s wiring. Since my LP Heritage from '82 had that "modern" called wiring, I went for 50s. After that it was huge better then ever before. But I shure will your version a try within the next weeks and give you my feedback.

[Rickey_Dee]

After I got my bumblebees a few month ago (my are also from Luxe) I did what they called 50s wiring. Since my LP Heritage from '82 had that "modern" called wiring, I went for 50s. After that it was huge better then ever before. But I shure will your version a try within the next weeks and give you my feedback.

did you order the complete set with the cts-pots or just the caps?

[Frank_Heritage]

did you order the complete set with the cts-pots or just the caps?

I've ordered both, the Luxe set and four 500KOhm pots (cause the original pots were much away from 500k). Since I asked them explicit for 500k, the ones I've got were all measured about 485 and 510.

They do a very well job and I've ordered several parts from them over the time.


BTW: I found a statement from Gibson where it It appears that there were inconsistencies in the wiring of the 50s guitars:

"Thanks for writing! I contacted our Custom Shop, and they have indicated that the actual vintage models that we had in-hand to do our Research and Development were wired in the way that we are currently wiring our Reissues. Contrary to popular belief, there were some inconsistencies in the manufacturing methods of the late 50s and 60s, while the instruments would have still been “developing”. So, according to our research, the wiring is considered historically accurate. Thanks for the inquiry, and I hope this helps!"

[cfljames]

The Luxe way is correct 50's wiring or what is referred to as 50's,although you will see rarely some original burst that did have as to what is referred to as modern wiring with the center lug wired instead of the end lug.
It is a matter of preference and has been the source of argument in matter of tone or taste between people forever as well as myself.I believe what Jim is saying 100% tone wise,yet people,techs(so called) think I am nuts and the way to get a usable range is to go is 50's?(Luxe example)
Every time I tried the 50's(Luxe example) it sounded like someone put a wet blanket over my cabs and I lost what is referred to as the woman tone you would hear in Cream or another good example would be Warren Haynes.
Again matter of preference? Note:My new 09 59 came 50's style,while my 08 58 came with modern style,I prefer the example of modern.
I wish someone could do a sound clip with them rolling the tone knob from ten to zero or vice versa?
I should have my equipment soon enough and will try to give the best example of the differences between the two guitars.
Let the games begin with these diagrams :

[Scumback Speakers]

I've got 20 speakers to ship out today, but after I get done with that I can record a clip for you guys to show you the tonal differences of the way I wire my guitars. I'll do one clean and one distorted, that way you'll know the differences.

My typical amp EQ setup is to set the amp for a good solo tone, then roll down the guitar volumes for clean tones, so that's why I use this type of wiring. Here's a pic of how it looks in my Les Paul BFG with P90's. Warning, this picture is HUGE! It seems to correspond with modern wiring in the pic above, by the way, so perhaps the 300K pots and single coil P90's are the difference, but it's pretty clean when turned down, without losing the high end.

http://www.southbayampworks.com/lpbfg/bfg-3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[cfljames]

I've got 20 speakers to ship out today, but after I get done with that I can record a clip for you guys to show you the tonal differences of the way I wire my guitars. I'll do one clean and one distorted, that way you'll know the differences.

My typical amp EQ setup is to set the amp for a good solo tone, then roll down the guitar volumes for clean tones, so that's why I use this type of wiring. Here's a pic of how it looks in my Les Paul BFG with P90's. Warning, this picture is HUGE!

http://www.southbayampworks.com/lpbfg/bfg-3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the way I prefer also my guitars to be wired given the choice.This is what is considered the modern style,so please don't get pissed at me Jim but yours is not what is referred to as 50's style,although I agree with you a 100% with the tonal differences as much as the snobs call us both crazy
PLEASE,I always seem to get forum members pissed when I post a difference or correction and I am of zero authority to correct,so please make your own decisions,But what is above is 100% correct.

[Scumback Speakers]

So here's where it gets confusing...ready?
Modern wiring, instead of 50's, right?


Modern wiring, right?


My 68 LP Custom with a volume pot mod (treble bleed) using a 150K ohm 1/4-1/2w resistor with a .001 microfarad cap. This is the same as modern wiring, yet it needs the mod to not go all bassy when turning down the volume pot. 500k pots with humbuckers.
http://southbayampworks.com/wiring/volpotmod.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And finally, my Les Paul BFG (300K pots, P90's) wiring, which doesn't get all bassy when turned down.
http://www.southbayampworks.com/lpbfg/bfg-3.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ain't this fun?

[Frank_Heritage]

As far as I understand, the key point of the 50s is not to avoid the loss of treble while turning down the volume. It is more the wide range of sound variation which occoures when lower the vol. Exceptionally turning down the tone sounds very different from 50s to 60s. With the tone almost down you get nearly a kind of wah.
In the lack of a better term I would say it emphazises a certain "honk" tone (on the condition a guitar gives that substance).
And this behavior makes a lot of sense if you are using a well dimed 100w SLP. And that's what a lot of guys did way back.

So, 50s has an more sound manipulating accent. It has to fit to the rest of your gear and you have to be willing to turning a lot with your pots.
If some looks for an easy way to reduce the gain with as less as possible treble bleed, the 60s seems to be the better solution (whether with or without an additional treble bleed cap/res).

As always it's a matter of taste