You Vote: BOG EL34 vs. 6550

[Xplorer]

i guess it is because the strings were too close of the neck, for this neck. maybe not a problem of truss rod, but perhaps the whole neck inclined a bit back. it wasn't set as well as the black one perhaps.

[Xplorer]

Really.... It does sound the same .... I discovered hendrix on the lp of this band of gypsys concert. A 30-40 years old disc i guess,from my father. On a B&O beomaster 4000 with 100 watts beovox speakers and an elliptic diamond on the beogram it sounds great ! but this concert allways sounds good don't worry about the comparison

oh theres no doubt about it, the sound that really happened that night is different from the sounds we've all heard. In fact just listening to the 6550 clips through different speakers that really have more of a flat EQ made a big difference in being able to decifer the differences from 34's to 6550s. Id love to hear the album on an original album.

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

When I first heard Billy Batz`s 6550 Clips, I thought: Case closed, sonic evidence. Recently though, having finally had the oppurtuinity to mess around liberally for extended lengths of time with my new 412 Cab and my other gear, I`m back on the fence.

Obviously I`m not going to get there exactly with the gear that I currently have, since a JTM 45 half Stack is not the same as a Superlead full stack. But to my ears, I`m getting some good BoGesque tones.

For those of you chasing this tone, I think that you need a good vibe clone, like a Mega-Vibe or a Mojo-Vibe, one of the ones that imitates the actual preamp circuit of the Uni-Vibe. Get yourself some curly cables.

My signal chain was the following:

Strat--Area 51 Wah--Dunlop Octavio-Axis Face Clone-MojoVibe---JTM45(bluze81 super sexy edition) into my Jimi 412 loaded with Weber 55hz 30 watters.

With only the Vibe turned on, I dialed in a hair below unity gain, then turned the Intensity knob to Zero, which mimics the old school Vibe bypass. Even with my amp dimed (minus presence at 8 and bass on 2 and normal volume at 0), the vibe provided that clarity and glassy treble that you hear on the recording.

What`s missing from my tone is a touch of gain, which a later super lead circuit would give me, and even though the EL`s are darker and squishier than the 6550`s, I believe that a Vibe rigged up in this manner would provided the clarity while still allowing that nice compression from the el`s to come through.

Just my theory.

Travis

[Freedom]

For those of you chasing this tone, I think that you need a good vibe clone, like a Mega-Vibe or a Mojo-Vibe, one of the ones that imitates the actual preamp circuit of the Uni-Vibe. Get yourself some curly cables.

With only the Vibe turned on, I dialed in a hair below unity gain, then turned the Intensity knob to Zero, which mimics the old school Vibe bypass. Even with my amp dimed (minus presence at 8 and bass on 2 and normal volume at 0), the vibe provided that clarity and glassy treble that you hear on the recording.

Hi Travis.

That's a gut shot of a univibe's speed pedal:



It seems there is a switch on the heel position so i doubt when you "cancel" a real univibe its like you only set the intensity(edited) to 0 (if the speed pedal had only a pot and not switch then that would be the case)...btw, i've tried setting my megavibes the way you said (engaged with min intensity) and i don't think that's the case at all (imho always)...

EDIT: i meant, the old univibes seem to have a switch to engage/disengage the effect so i really don't know how you can simulate an old disengaged univibe using an engaged contemporary vibe with the intensity set on 0

I am with you with the curly (and/or long cables) cables and for the guys that have "bright" amps and low output single coil pups i'd recommend to at least try once a non buffered and non-true bypass wah in their chain (not recommended for dark amps, humbuckers or hot output single coils imho)...most of the boutique vox clone wahs are TB (and non buffered when off) and its easy to convert the TB to vintage wiring, try it and wire it back to TB if you don't like it...

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

No man, speed can be wherever you want, I'm talking the "Intensity" control, the one the controls the overall strength/depth. This control all the way off yields a cool buffering effect with no sweep/throb. At least on the mojovibe it does, I have no experience with the megavibe. If I'm not mistaken, in cancel mode on the original vibes, the input circuit is still in the chain, and the actual effect section is shorted.

And yeah, I loves my curly cables. And good point as well on the non true bypass wah, how does one convert to this spec?

If I can talk my buddy to drag over his recording stuff, I'll try to demonstrate via clips what I mean, with vibe setting and whatnot.

Travis

[Freedom]

No man, speed can be wherever you want, I'm talking the "Intensity" control, the one the controls the overall strength/depth. This control all the way off yields a cool buffering effect with no sweep/throb. At least on the mojovibe it does, I have no experience with the megavibe. If I'm not mistaken, in cancel mode on the original vibes, the input circuit is still in the chain, and the actual effect section is shorted.

OK, i am an idiot...i meant intensity and not speed but my previous post is a little bit uuuhmmmm!!! (darn got to edit my previous post cause it doesn't make any sense )...

No man, speed can be wherever you want, I'm talking the "Intensity" control, the one the controls the overall strength/depth. This control all the way off yields a cool buffering effect with no sweep/throb. At least on the mojovibe it does, I have no experience with the megavibe.

But you got it anyway...

Because that's the point i have my doubts:

If I'm not mistaken, in cancel mode on the original vibes, the input circuit is still in the chain, and the actual effect section is shorted.

It's different to just leave our vibes on with the intensity set on min than what you decrbided above, right?

And yeah, I loves my curly cables. And good point as well on the non true bypass wah, how does one convert to this spec?

Got to find my notes man, i can't get very technical with these stuff...but even with my pathetic iron/soldering abilities it took me less than 10 minutes (yes, i am slow) to convert my old picture wah and my supaquack from TB to vintage wiring...

(i mean 10 minutes for each wah...but i didn't use the classic blue 3PDTs they had, i had already replaced them with Carling DPDTs and i am pretty sure they are easier to work with, more distance between the lugs)

[basile865]

honestly guys if I havent made this point before - I don't even care about the whole 6550 vs EL34 thing nowadays. Heres why: Ever since I put in my winged C EL34's chosen for high headroom, AND added a second tall straight cab with vintage 30's I got right where I wanted to be.

I dont know that its exact BOG tone, but it really has exactly what I want. Lots of power, lots of low end and lots of clarity. Running a full stack really makes a strat sound huge. You can see how running 3 in an indoor venue would make the strat sound completely MASSIVE.

You put a distortion pedal in front of it and you can fly like an eagle.

I really dont think it was 6550s creating all that low end clarity. I think it was how he had his amps dialed in, the room, the recording, the fuzz, all those things put together. But truly, running a full stack is the shit! I dont even play it that loud and rediculous (not always anyway) Its really good at basically making your strat have the body of a jazz humbucker guitar yet retain the strat clarity.

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

It's different to just leave our vibes on with the intensity set on min than what you decrbided above, right?

I'm not sure to be honest, I'm only going by what I hear when I do this (My 18 year olds licence in vintage electronics bullshitting only goes so far ). With my intensity at zero, I'm getting absolutely no audible sweep or swell, but I get this really cool filtering effect that rounds out the sound while at the same time bringing a bunch of glassiness to the top end. Warm and round yet bright and sparkly. I'm sure that electronically it's not precisely what went on in the original vibe, but I bet it's similar.

Try turning your vibe on into your amp how you'd normally run it (much more noticable if the volume is relatively high on the edge of breakup), then turn your intensity knob to minimum, if you're still getting sweep then there is something different in the way that our vibes are wired (obviously a possibility). If the sweep is gone, try playing for a while then hitting the true bypass on the vibe. When I do it to mine, you immediately notice that the sound sorta opens up in the mids, but you lose a distinct glassiness that you only get when the vibe is on.

If I can get my buddy and his interface over, I'm gonna try and capture what I'm talking about in a clip. I won't go for a BoG tone, but more or less an overall demonstration.

Travis

[Freedom]

I have already tried that Travis, i am not getting any sweep when my vibes's insensity is set on minimum, never had that problem (i have tried it with my old Mini Dejavibe as well)...

I just don't think (always imho and according to my ears) that the result is the same as a "cancelled" univibe...

I love my vibe but with the intensity set on 0 it just changes my overal sound way too much and not in a nice way...i believe that the more you crank the intensity the more lows (and fuller sound) you get and i believe the same way works backwards as well...and i don't like the result neither i hear BOG sound that way, the sound in my case becomes kind of thin ...

Anyway, maybe its because our gear is different (and our ears )...i got a '69 SL metro clone and low output sss strat (CS69)...

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

Ah k, I'd assume the bass spec in my amp kinda helps me along when I roll the intensity back because the boosted treble/thinness is counteracted by the dark circuit. And different ears definately play a factor, you're certainly right.

Does anybody build a Vibe that mimics the cancel function, or is everyone obsessing over true bypassing it?


I still say the metro forumites should get together and just rebuild the fillmore east, unlocking the tonal secrets to the best live albums of all time.

[Freedom]

I tried it again yesterday and i've also noticed that both the octavia and the fuzz (CI Octavian and KR Gypsy Fuzz in my case) sound really wierd when the vibe is engaged with the intensity set on 0...

Oh, well...

[Freedom]

Does anybody build a Vibe that mimics the cancel function, or is everyone obsessing over true bypassing it?

Hmmmmm...anybody wants to modify the new MDV-2 from TB to vintage wiring??? That would be spot on (uuuuuhmmmm, probably)

[ohmygodtheykilledkenny]

That would be really killer methinks. I have a local tech guru that I've been talking to, I may ask him if he knows how one could change the bypass mode.

I noticed last time I was in his shop that he had a couple empty 70's morley wah cases, big suckers. Maybe a modification that would allow for a said wah casing to be used like a speed controler with a cable connecting to the switch on the wah casing (moved to heel position) for vintage bypassing, while keeping the option of true bypassing open on the main pedal.

Muahahaha franken-vibe.

[Freedom]

That would be great man...keep us informed!!

(although i think we should open a new thread about this, we are way off topic here)

[spaceace76]

i haven't done any work towards it yet, but when I build my vibe, I hope to have dual speed, with the second speed working from an expression pedal that contains the cancel function, and I'm fairly certain you can just add true bypass around the entire thing. it would be the best of all schools of thought, set speed or pedal with cancel, TB, etc. plus, you don't actually need the cancel function, the same thing is achieved with the intensity pot all the way down.