guitar builders, please help on set up info

[cary chilton]

Sorry this is long, but it is very detailed about something that is hard articulate. I think I conveyed the observations quite well. Please help, if you know. Thanks! Otherwise, I have to send it to the guitar tech I trust, 6 hours away and well... I am trying to save cash. Thanks again.

I just got my G&L Legacy (solid maple neck and alder body, black, white pickguard) from a US seller of ebay.

The guitar is NOS, that is 1992-4 but still has the plastic on the pickguard. I guessing it was never played. The neck is more comfortable than my G&L Swamp Ash George Fullerton Signature ( a model that is discontinued).

Anyway, before getting to my questions. This is what I noticed. Keep in mind I do have a fair share of experience intonation and basic set ups on my George fullerton. They both have the G&L floating dual fulcrum tremelo system. The most stable floating non-lock tremelo out there, imo.

This is my first ALDER body guitar. These are my observations UNPLUGGED. I haven't plugged it into the amp yet. Tomorrow, perhaps. It did what I expected, more resonance on the highs, with that compression it has when played hard, ala SRV. Single notes, were much softer than the swamp ash/rosewood, think piano like. The first and second string are a little louder with more bloom and sustain than the swamp ash G&L.

I was surprised that the 4-6th strings were dampened, very soft, despite the solid maple neck's spank, quite ill-defined compared to the swamp ash bodied guitar. Is that common? I guess that is my first question.

Ok, into the meat and potatoes... FIRST, I want to say that while this guitar is in GREAT shape for its age, there is some junk or rust on some parts of some frets and of course the strings aren't in great shape, quite rusty. Nonetheless, I proceeded. To get to know the state of guitar before putting new strings and to know whether or not I could set up it up well enough or if I need to send it off to a guitar tech....

First of, the guitar's action was very low, and played surprisingly well with rusty strings.
I noticed that the low was fretting out somewhere past the 15th and the high had some ping'ing going on. First performed a full turn higher, on each screw on the low E saddle. It seemed better. So I decide even out the rest of the strings, raising all the saddle screws a full turn. The result? The High E ping seemed to still be there, though for the life of me I couldn't tell WHERE, since even on a soft ring of the string and its clearance above all the frets, it shouldn't have.

With the strings higher, the high E and the B seemed to resonance less or quieter which was weird. The SNAPPINESS in the feel, also surprisingly seemed less. So I decided to drop the E and B and the 3rd,4th and 5th strings down back to the original position and the 6th string half a turn back down. All the while I am re-postioning the screws for the tremelo to be sure that it is sitting flush, as you need to do with this type of tremelo.
So back to square, basically with the low E a little better than the original position.
So now I decided to loosed the Truss a quarter of a turn, or even a bit shy of... Re-positioned the trem screws and voila, the guitar seems to be happy. The snappiness of the feel of the guitar and volume of the high E and B are back. The low E isn't fretting out. I basically just followed what the guitar seemed to want relative to the tone/bloom/sustain/volume and feel versus whether it is fretting out etc.
I won't REALLY know WTF is REALLY up until tomorrow or so until the guitar sets a bit more, with the truss now loosened a bit, so I don't want to put new strings on yet. So according to you luthiers and knowledgable guitar techs, was my process of set up the right process?

I ask because seems a lot better, but there still is a little ping happening on the high E. This ALSO the case on my Swamp ASH G&L and 2 guitar techs didn't seem to be able to solve it. So maybe it is a strat thing? or a G&L thing? I am talking, about a slight acoustic ping when playing a open chord like a D chord. Is it solvable??

Another question I had was that WHEN I had the 5th and particularly the 6th string raised the strings seemed to make a weird sound, almost like the sound you hear if you try tapping weakly on an acoustic guitar, that radio-harmonic thing. But when I dropped the saddles down again, that weirdness dissipated, though it is not totally a clean acoustic note, imo. BTW out of the box, the intonation was nearly bang on, and also each time I reset things, the intonation stayed, pretty freaky. So, is this the nature of Alder unplugged? or is this the rusty string??


THanks Metro!


ADDED: I want add that the new G&L trem springs are fat coiled and well... DEAD sounding. The middle one actually looks copper. The springs in my other G&L are smaller coiled, and tapping them makes your usual spring sound. My question is, will switching the springs make an improved tonal or sustain

[basile865]

Man, I'm not a builder or tech by any means but I am a long time strat owner - just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.

Its hard to understand exactly what sound you mean when youre saying ping, I dont know if its just basically some sort of buzz. It sounds like by giving the neck a little relief it had less of the issue so thats good.

Don't drive yourself crazy over these little sounds ESPECIALLY UNPLUGGED! My strat has medium action with big old frets and itll buzz in plenty of places, which is especially noticeable unplugged. I think thats just a strat thing to tell you the truth. Theyre all going to have a little bit of buzz slightly.

As long as it rings clear when youre playing plugged in thats all that matters.

I find that experimenting with saddle height can be very helpful in fixing those sorts of things. But its all easy stuff - dont be afraid to experiment and wrench on it! Truss rod stuff you need to be more careful with but with saddle adjustments you're not gonna hurt anything. Just experiment till it feels right to you.

Make sure you have correct pickup height as well. If they're too close to the string it will create a strange overtone and not let some notes ring clear.

And lastly - dont try to evaluate the guitar or make adjustments with dead rusty strings. That is a bad representation of the current set up. Take them all off, polish up that neck and those frets, put on some fresh strings, mess with the saddle height to get it to your liking without buzzing, and check it when you're plugged into an amp.

As far as trem springs I think they definitely have an effect on the overall sound of the guitar. You can probably buy a set cheap at a guitar store or read up on a company called raw vintage who makes saddles and springs. I hear good things about them but havent owned it before.

I hope this helps somewhat, and dont let a little buzz here and there drive you crazy when its unplugged, I think thats just the nature of strats.

[xbearxau]

Im with basile865 when it comes to the strings. Old tarnished strings can give you some really funky problems that really arent there! Overtones and strange harmonic content which fool you into thinking there are more problems than there really are. Clean up the frets and board and re string with a new set and do your evaluation from there. Most techs will go through at least a couple of sets of strings doing a full setup and fret dress anyway.

[cary chilton]

Thanks bruthas! I will put on the new strings soon. BTW I play an alder bodied, maple neck CHARVEL - pricy one, 2000 ish? rock type guitar with a quasi Tele shape. Well my G&L blows it away on feel -mine is much snappier to play as long as the action is low, and the tone is better. Unplugged, let me explain.... on say the 2nd string above the 12th instead of getting thin, when I do a 1/2 bend vibrato, with each bend the note becomes more resonant and slightly louder. THat is F'in great! I never had a guitar do that before. I recognized this phenomena on recordings I have heard in the past and figured it was ALL the Marshalls. Nope. Actually starts on CERTAIN guitars, I just got lucky.

The frets are level to be trapezoidal and the feel is great man!

[planetjimi]

+1 on the string change. Any observation made on the guitar is null and void with old rusty strings.

[vanhalen5150]

Also check the string slot for the E at the nut. If the slot is not angled back and down towards the head correctly, the string will sit back in the slot a bit. The buzz or "sitar" sound is coming from the string vibrating off of the inner walls of the nut. The fulcrum for the string has to be at the body side of the nut, and not somewhere towards the headstock.

[wdelaney72]

I have a 1981 G&L S-500 with the dual fulcrum trem. While I love this guitar for it's feel and sentimental value, I have found the dual fulcrum trem unusable. If you can find I way to make the tram usuable, I'd love to hear about it.

[Structo]

Fender style bolt on neck guitars generally sound better with the action adjusted a little on the high medium side.

If you are used to a Gibson or other guitar with an angled neck, those guys love to play with the strings on the deck.
But on strats and teles the neck is straight to the bridge so you have to adjust a little relief in the neck plus have the strings a little higher.

I simply cannot play a strat with the strings too low, I can't get my finger on the string to bend it right.

Of course you don't want the action so high that it causes problems with the intonation.
You just have to play around with the saddles till you get it where you want it.

Also on Fender guitars especially, it is not uncommon to have to shim the neck.
I won't say half, but a large number of guitars that left the Fender factory in the old days had shims under the necks.
When I do it I usually start with a normal business card thickness.
Most of the times, it will go on the headstock end of the neck pocket to raise the strings a bit at the bridge end of the neck.

Also, as suggested if you have a dead high E string or one that pings, it could be the nut slot or it could be it needs a string tree.

One of the tricks around this if you can't fix it by adjusting the nut slot is when you wind the high strings wind them so you have a few turns around the peg, so it forces the string lower on the peg.
This will increase the angle of the string from the nut to the peg increasing down force.

Of course you could fix all of this by buying staggered tuners.
I recently bought some Gotoh staggered tuners and they are the best I have used.
They have the split peg like vintage but they have the best stagger of any I have tried.
Hope this helps.