Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

[mr.twistyneck]

Holy shit I am laughin so hard it fricken hurts!

LOL

mistertwisty - can you give the guitar spec on that clip?

Warmoth VW homebuilt, bridge pickup is a SD Trembucker. I'll be honest - I have stayed completely out of the pickup discussions - all my main guitars were put together using parts. The pickups were random Gibsons, Duncans or DiMarzios that I would pick out the used pickup bin at a now-closed store in Nashville. My criteria for sourcing a pickup was that it be either of those three manufacturers and still have enough wire left to be usable. So if you start talking magnets and impedance and winds - it's Greek to me. Really scientific...

How is HEAT in the amp this way? Is it reduced? Tranny run cooler? Or does it seem about the same?

In order: I dunno. I didn't check. I didn't check. I dunno. Summary: It hasn't blown up yet. I expect it will at some point. If it does, I'll have it repaired. The head is a mongrel - nothing special in terms of authenticity.

I would be interested to hear if someone else had a different experience.

Yeah! I might try to stick my Hot Plate or Weber Mass in between the head and cab, on full load, solely to get a line out and run it into the front of my Super Trem and a 4x12. But if anybody else is has some sacrificial lambs they can try this on and record on audio or video, that would be super neat!

[Krinkle]

Bedroom volume coming out of Weber MyTone12 pre-rola-dope

Sounds great!

I tried this with my 4x12 with G12M-25's and I am a lot louder than what I would consider bedroom volume.

My guess is that pulling 2 tubes and only using 1 speaker would lower the volume quite a bit.

I didn't need to boost the front end, I'm using a Divebomb body, Warmoth Maple/Maple neck, with a DiMarzio SD.

At 60VAC I do not notice any extra heat with the amp dimed, not much heat at all. I occasionally dime the amp at 120VAC and I can tell you that the amp gets pretty hot, pretty quick. Head is a Metroamp 12000 series, almost complete DF EVH specs.

[rgalpin]

Good to hear another example. For the record, I was using 2 speakers. What I am calling bedroom volume is like the volume you would comfortably listen to music by yourself - if someone tried to talk to you at that volume, they would need to raise their voice a bit or you would need to turn it down if you wanted to have a conversation. That being said, it seems like maybe 60V didn't get this amp into the same realm as some of the other examples I have heard about and heard. Curious was your power light extremely dim? Mine was almost out - you could see the filament was lit but it didn't really give off any light anyway... i guess from what I hear of your experience, if it were me, I would continue to lower the voltage until it was "bedroom" volume and i felt the need for a boost on the front just to see how it performed at that level regardless of the actual reading. I did not take an actual voltage reading on my test - the variac was set at 60 on the dial but i don't expect that dial to be accurate.

all that said... [gasping for breath] did you try it any lower than 60?

[mr.twistyneck]

I haven't gone lower. Yet.

How do I figure out what the new output is in watts? I wonder what the decibel drop is?

[johnnybgoood]

Eddie Van Halen on using the Variac:
"I stumbled onto the Variac. I wondered if the amp would still work if I lowered the voltage. It worked for years. Sylvania 6CA7 tubes sound great in it."
January/February 2014 - Guitar Aficionado

"It enabled me to turn my amp all the way up, save the tubes, save the wear and tear on the tubes, and play at clubs at half the volume.
Esquire - April, 2012

"I like it to sound like it's basically dying and then back it off a tad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwYtz_SBfJc#t=3m32s

Cathode stripping only occurs at high voltages over 10 Kilovolts. In small transmitting tubes it's a non-factor. If it were a problem, tube rectifiers that have plate voltage applied immediately at turn-on would be destroyed.

[vanhalen5150]

Sounds good Twistyneck.

Remember back in 2008-2009 when everyone here was really getting into this low variac deal. There was at least a comment a day with someone telling us not to try it and how they have wrecked amps by doing so....

And yet 6-7 years later, how many people have wrecked an amp by doing so? I certainly haven't. Has anybody? So much as wrecked a tube that wouldn't have already blown under normal circumstances anyways?

[Krinkle]

Good to hear another example. For the record, I was using 2 speakers. What I am calling bedroom volume is like the volume you would comfortably listen to music by yourself - if someone tried to talk to you at that volume, they would need to raise their voice a bit or you would need to turn it down if you wanted to have a conversation. That being said, it seems like maybe 60V didn't get this amp into the same realm as some of the other examples I have heard about and heard. Curious was your power light extremely dim? Mine was almost out - you could see the filament was lit but it didn't really give off any light anyway... i guess from what I hear of your experience, if it were me, I would continue to lower the voltage until it was "bedroom" volume and i felt the need for a boost on the front just to see how it performed at that level regardless of the actual reading. I did not take an actual voltage reading on my test - the variac was set at 60 on the dial but i don't expect that dial to be accurate.

all that said... [gasping for breath] did you try it any lower than 60?

I measured 60VAC with my meter, my power light was pretty dim, close to being out.

It was a lot louder than raised voices. I'll go down to the basement and go lower.

After playing it some more I can see where I could use the EQ. I have one and I'll stick it in there once I get it as low as possible. I also have the HOF reverb and I've been using Paul Gilbert's VH Toneprint setting with extremely good results IMHO. I want to get it as good as possible before I add any FX.

[guitar007]

I've run my amps with low voltage (90v or less) for many years and never experienced a reduction in tube life...pre or power. My trannys also run much cooler.

[dirtycooter]

I guess one way to tell would be to use one of those heat guns that take temp from a laser pointer that way you can tell if your amp is runnin a fever or not. It seems it would run cooler with less voltage but lookin for reliable data here. I find it interesting if maybe there is less strain than an attenuator would create.
Maybe the 90v rumore is more toward 60v and the dial just was off like so many here find theirs are where dial is misaligned #'s vs V.
Suhr's account was the pilot light dimmed. Was it just barely lit up or just a slight reduction in intensity?
I think accounts here are it needs to be hardly lit from what I am hearing. And thats happening where it is getting nice and greasy sounding

[Krinkle]

Ok, I just went down to 50VAC, but the tone starts to suffer below 55VAC, for me. I was running it at 55VC for a while with the blue MXR EQ in and it was okay but not quite enough oooomph. The volume was a lot better but I lost some grit. When I boosted the 800 and 1.6k past 9 I went from VH to Boston. I turned the variac back up to 60VAC and turned my LarMar down to about 6, the tone started to suffer when I went below 6 on the PPIMV. Still too loud to sit in front of the cab and play, though.

I will say that this is the first time that I have been able to dime the Bass, I CANNOT do that at 120VAC, flub city. Kids are playing PS4 next to my setup so that's all I can get away with today. I'll keep playing away with this, there is definitely something here, I just need to listen and play a lot so I can fine tune and figure out where I need to be in the end. I can see this being perfect with a drummer next to me. IMHO Ed definitely did this, you would have to be stone cold tone deaf not to hear that. Great job Rob!!!!

Want to here something hilarious!? At 55VAC I kicked in my Mooer Tubescreamer, which is set up like a clean boost, and it sounded like a million bucks! Mean Street tapped harmonics on the 12, 11, 10th frets of the A and D string were really popping out super clear, which my guitar straight into amp setup does not do.

[Krinkle]

I guess one way to tell would be to use one of those heat guns that take temp from a laser pointer that way you can tell if your amp is runnin a fever or not. It seems it would run cooler with less voltage but lookin for reliable data here. I find it interesting if maybe there is less strain than an attenuator would create.

No need to measure anything, amp is running very cool, much, much cooler than with an attenuator. I dime my amp a lot to show my friends what a Metro/Marshall on 10 sounds like, and I used to dime it and slave it and run it for long periods of time, the difference in heat is night and day. I will never dime at 120VAC again, no need to.

[mr.twistyneck]

Eddie Van Halen on using the Variac:
"I stumbled onto the Variac. I wondered if the amp would still work if I lowered the voltage. It worked for years. Sylvania 6CA7 tubes sound great in it."
January/February 2014 - Guitar Aficionado

"It enabled me to turn my amp all the way up, save the tubes, save the wear and tear on the tubes, and play at clubs at half the volume.
Esquire - April, 2012

"I like it to sound like it's basically dying and then back it off a tad."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwYtz_SBfJc#t=3m32s

Cathode stripping only occurs at high voltages over 10 Kilovolts. In small transmitting tubes it's a non-factor. If it were a problem, tube rectifiers that have plate voltage applied immediately at turn-on would be destroyed.

Yes. And thank you for that. And rgalpin, Plexified and Krinkle, etc.

So. Over ten years ago, C e r r e m's Mod popped up, and that was fun - but really not what I would call a good idea, or scalable. Then, there was the foray into the Secret Pedal, which I do think has merit. But STARVING THE AMP + hitting the front end <dependent on what you use to hit the front end, or your guitar pickup/effects, etc> seems to be much closer to "VH1 Sound" than I've ever come. And crap, I though C e r r e m's Mod and the Secret Pedal were great. Welp, I guess I'm going to have to really try the reamping deal at the next gig, because Live Band Karaoke always needs more brown sound.

[Carbia]

Everybody in the USA can try the 60v switching the voltage selector to 220 or 240...

I can try it in europe plugging it at the Step down trannie I use to my old Fender Bandmaster

[Krinkle]

The MXR is very touchy in this setup and can take you in and out of VH world with a slight adjustment - what i ended up with in this clip is:

100 --- +9
200 --- +6
400 --- +9
800 --- +9
1.6k -- +3
3.2k -- +9

I'm just catching up, and finding this to be VERY true. I'm VERY close now, I'll keep playing with the MXR but I might have to dig out the GE-10.

[rgalpin]

The MXR is very touchy in this setup and can take you in and out of VH world with a slight adjustment - what i ended up with in this clip is:

100 --- +9
200 --- +6
400 --- +9
800 --- +9
1.6k -- +3
3.2k -- +9

I'm just catching up, and finding this to be VERY true. I'm VERY close now, I'll keep playing with the MXR but I might have to dig out the GE-10.

ha ha! yes!! Very touchy - the difference between VH world and Tom Scholz world is just a db on those mid sliders.