Vintage Strat Tremelo

[basile865]

theres an article I read on tonequest, it was an interview with cesar diaz talking about pickups. I believe he mentioned that in his opinion a pickup that goes much beyond 6 ohms gets muddy. The custom shop 69's are 5.8 I believe. Pickups are a real tough game. When you're playing at volumes that are more realistic at home, even up to 4ish on the plexi, a warmer pickup sounds great, but I can see how when you really get to jimi levels theyd be too muddy. The whole thing is a game of balance. Hard decisions for a pickup thats actually right.

A good example: Back when I worked at GC, me and the old tech there were comparing strats. One (I hate to admit) was the john mayer strat with his big dipper pickups I think they were called. These were a low output pickup that sounded pretty good actually. They definitely allowed for a clear, healthy stratocaster tone. Then we plugged in his Stevie Ray strat with the texas specials. They sounded incredible. Fat and bluesy, almost a little bit clapton sounding, not that his playing is my favorite - but he's had some fat blues tones.

The difference with Jimi was that he had insane volume behind him and a fuzz box. For guys like myself, who wont ever be much louder than 7-8 on the volume tops, with a single plexi, and also tend to like plugging straight in without pedals, perhaps a slightly beefier pickup would be better for my chain. Again I dont know. I want to be able to retain the best qualities of the guitar's tone. Once that magnet gets too strong, it loses character.

In my opinion - a pickup should only "pick up" the vibrations and character of the instrument, not enhance the output in any way. But again on the other hand, for guys like myself who are going to be playing at lower than jimi volume haha - maybe a little bit higher output pickup would sound best?

I initially played that john mayer strat through a fender tube amp and I was impressed, it was one of those situations where the strat sounded extra "straty". Then we were playing some other amp I wish I could remember. But for some reason with the texas specials the sound came alive, it was a good bit louder but it had that fat blues thing going on, and the john mayer sounded almost like it had an electrical problem it was so weak.

The other idea is that maybe a strat should really only have a set output and anything over that will lose its quality. Then you should really only make the amp do the heavy work. I'm sort've thinking out loud here. You guys tell me your thoughts.

[basile865]

let me ask you guys this - whats your opinion on multiple piece bodies. I was happy to get the 1 piece alder because thats not easy to come by it seems. But even those 54's had 3 piece bodies at times I think. When I'm going to build the true vintage style strat with vintage specs should I get hung up over having a multi-piece body and hold off to find another 1 piece or does it not really matter?

[Tone Slinger]

I'd say that Hendrix's two main strats were probably 2 piece bodies. So as long as its Alder, I wouldnt spend extra for a 1 piece. I think a 2 piece is great. Depending on how the 2 pieces are connected in terms of the grain pattern and thier weights, all could enhance the dynaimc of a body, possibly making a 1 piece body sound less resonant in comparison in a certain view.

Pu's can have different ohm readings depending on design. I agee that a vintage style single coil doesnt like too much out put. The design of my mid 90's American standard set isnt totally 'vintage' though. They read about 6.6k. They arent as 'scooped' sounding as a true vintage style single coil.

[worldoftone]

Remember this phrase: SUM OF THE PARTS

That's the secret you are looking for. You are over thinking this way too much. There are all kinds of old Strats that don't play that well or sound all that good (although both are extremely subjective). And that is comparing apples to apples. Even with the good wood, old trem and old PUs, they just don't have "it".

I've played and owned enough of these to know that is just the way it is. The same thoughts can be applied to the guitars of today as well. I'd say the Nash guitars have surprised me the most for newer "accurate" repro's of good vintage Strats.

- WOT

[NY Chief]

WOT, have you ever played a Rory Gallagher custom shop strat?

I think mine feels like a well worn, old friend type axe and really has the feel of some old '61's I've played.

As the resident vintage strat expert I'd be curious as to your take on it.

[MacGaden]

Remember this phrase: SUM OF THE PARTS

That's the secret you are looking for. You are over thinking this way too much. There are all kinds of old Strats that don't play that well or sound all that good (although both are extremely subjective). And that is comparing apples to apples. Even with the good wood, old trem and old PUs, they just don't have "it".

- WOT

+ 1000 ! Fender made shitty and great guitars in all years. Even some of the new Am. Std. ones have "It". I

[worldoftone]

Yeah, I've been meaning to try one. Haven't got around to it yet. Soon. I'd want to hear it through my amps at real world volumes though. That is how I judge them.

I had a '57 Taos Turquoise "Dave's Guitar Shop" LTD. ED. CS Strat in here not too long ago that sounded real good at LOW volumes. But, you start bringing the volume up and the PUs really started to show their weakness. I tested it vs. my '58 Strat through a '59 Bassman. It totally SHOCKED the seller. He couldn't believe the difference. It opened his eyes big time. His jaw basically hit the floor when I plugged in the '58 Strat and hit a few chords.

- WOT

[basile865]

I wish I had better exposure to some of the good stuff. And I totally understand some just have it and some don't. It even seems like some have it on certain days and others days they don't. Sometimes my strat really feels good and others not so much. Its still interesting the differences between vintage and modern day stuff.

[Tone Slinger]

If my guitar didnt sound 'good' at higher or lower volumes through a given amp, then I'd be more suspicious of the amp than guitar . I agree with the 'SUM OF ALL PARTS' theory though, cause that is,in fact, what a guitar is. I have played several strats of all vintages over the years and echo the former posts. The actual 'physical' design of a strat is awesome, regardless of the more intricate ramifications of how the bridge or block and saddles construction/alloy affect the tone (though I feel it does to some extent). Other than my '56 Tokai (made in '84, and since been 'reliced' into a late 'sixty eight') which is 'IT' for me, I have really only been impressed in a similar kinda way by 4 others, a yellowed 'white' ala 'Axis bold as Love lookin rosewood board strat, a '56 maple neck, a '74 maple neck and a '2003 '69 sun burst maple board custom shop reissue, which was probably second in my opinion to my Tokai.

[worldoftone]

If my guitar didnt sound 'good' at higher or lower volumes through a given amp, then I'd be more suspicious of the amp than guitar

Not in this case. I know this amp inside and out. It's my go-to amp for the big gigs and slays just about every other amp I own. It is "Sex in a box" to quote another well-known guitar player. It is indeed all that.

Besides, I tried that guitar through a couple of others. Same story.

- WOT

[basile865]

the bassman is your go to amp? Its funny, I've never heard a good sounding bassman even though theyre considered like a holy grail of tone. Guess I've only heard the modern day reissues.

[worldoftone]

Big difference bro.



No reissue is gonna touch this one.

- WOT

[Tone Slinger]

I see the point about the amp, but I'm sure all agree about the guitar itself as being the step before the amp. My strat sounds good through any amp as compared to ANYTHING I've put up against it. Some amps match it better though.

I have really enjoyed ALL the 'Bassman' reissue's I've had the oppertunity to play through. I actually would like to run one through a 2/12 or 4/12 cab though. The mids arent quite right with the 10's imo. I recall 4 yrs ago or so at GC, that alot of people really were likeing the tone of my Strat through a 'Deluxe' reverb, I think it was. I was just dicking around with the 2 and 4 positions on my selector, and alot of the guys there were digging the tone. I have the KENDRICK books, and he goes into GREAT detail as to why the reissues (Fender in general) arent NEARLY as good as the originals. I think one could get close though with a few minor replacements (tranny's and tubes).

I have actually been wanting to get a old Fender 'Dual Showman' head, cause I hear they have a huge out put tube plate voltage (CLEAN HEADROOM ) kinda like the Music Man HD series, EXCEPT, they dont 'fart out' out and track as bad as the HD's when distorted. A Dual Showman head atop a good 4/12 is what I'd like to try.

[JimiJames]

Remember this phrase: SUM OF THE PARTS

That's the secret you are looking for. You are over thinking this way too much. There are all kinds of old Strats that don't play that well or sound all that good (although both are extremely subjective). And that is comparing apples to apples. Even with the good wood, old trem and old PUs, they just don't have "it".

- WOT

+ 1000 ! Fender made shitty and great guitars in all years. Even some of the new Am. Std. ones have "It". I

+1 In Fenders (for me) their are many combos of parts and woods that have "it" . Depending on what your going for you have the caps vs. the slabs as well as the one piece in necks and respectfully for bodies.
As for bridges, a good steel block with steel springs will keep "it" in the ballpark.
You will notice a big difference when you have the alloy springs. They are dead sounding and very bad in tone transfer.
Also, with my saddle springs, I have it where they are cut to fit intonated as you can see
in the previously posted link and these other pics where atleast half the saddles are bottomed out leaving the saddle spring compressed against the bridge stock for solid tone transfer.
For shit & giggles, all my Strat's have that little Trem arm spring as well and in the past have wraped the trem arm threads with a little teflon tape for less slop.
And yeah, I use a Strat whammy's like a Floyd so it has to be just right...
Some guys rarely even use the whammy and rely on having it bottomed out resting on the body.
For this I recommend putting a tube cut to size in each spring to eliminate the "reverb" effect.(Obtained at your local pet supply store in the fish dept. or hardware store.)
The early seventies block saddles are nice but for me the fifties/sixties have the "snap" I'm looking for.