Ed's 1978 'rewound' pu

[Tone Slinger]

I think we are all pretty much on the same page here. I have been listening to (old Ed), then playing, swapping pu's around in my strat, etc. I will say that this is where I stand (at the moment )

I have no doubt that Ed used a Mighty Mite clone of a Dimarzio Super Distortion on that first Van Halen record (in the Franky that is). My 'new' (2011) DSD just totally reeks of that first album. There is a push and warmth to the mids/upper mids along with a presency 'sheen' to everything. The gain and aggressiveness is there as well, which goes missing in my 'Custom Custom' (same 14kish type wind, but uses an alnico2). The palm mutes also have more of that 'peaked' type charector as well (DSD). My 9k stewmac sounds very 1978ish as soon as I put an alnico 2 bar in it. The a5 bar that came in it sounded very '59ish (thinner, brighter).

A 'possible' scenario, concerning Seymour,

I think that maybe Seymour had talked a bit with Ed, and that Ed had disclosed (probably had the Franky right there with him) that he was using a Mighty Mite pu (1300). Seymour actually worked for Mighty Mite and had designed thier line, so he knew EXACTLY what pu Ed had (MM 1300). Ed, possibly told him that he liked the sound of the pu's in his (Es-335 ?) but thought they were a bit weak when he put them in his strat. Seymour then, probably thought "Well, I can just rewind the pu a tad bit hotter to give it a little more mids and push". I think that the Duncan '78 is probably based as closely as possible to that. The 'EVH Custom' that Seymour was selling by '79 (Basically an SH-5) was Seymours take on the previous DSD rip off that he designed/made for Mighty Mite, which he knew for a fact that Ed used on that first Van Halen album ('cause it was probably in Ed's Franky when he first came to Seymour, in early '78).

I mean, like Pete's clips show, a 14k ceramic magnet (specifically hex poled) has OBVIOUS Vh1 mojo, while a 9k alnico 2 pickup gets you the '78 tour tone up through VhII tone.

[garbeaj]

I think we are all pretty much on the same page here. I have been listening to (old Ed), then playing, swapping pu's around in my strat, etc. I will say that this is where I stand (at the moment )

I have no doubt that Ed used a Mighty Mite clone of a Dimarzio Super Distortion on that first Van Halen record (in the Franky that is). My 'new' (2011) DSD just totally reeks of that first album. There is a push and warmth to the mids/upper mids along with a presency 'sheen' to everything. The gain and aggressiveness is there as well, which goes missing in my 'Custom Custom' (same 14kish type wind, but uses an alnico2). The palm mutes also have more of that 'peaked' type charector as well (DSD). My 9k stewmac sounds very 1978ish as soon as I put an alnico 2 bar in it. The a5 bar that came in it sounded very '59ish (thinner, brighter).

I mean, like Pete's clips show, a 14k ceramic magnet (specifically hex poled) has OBVIOUS Vh1 mojo, while a 9k alnico 2 pickup gets you the '78 tour tone up through VhII tone.

I agree completely.

[somethin'else]

I'm totally down with this picture TS. I think you've had it generally sussed out for a while. I haven't actually had the pleasure of playing with MMs, DSDs or CCs, but my 8.9k weak A5 was the shit for me for a while, the A2 didn't go with me on that one. My homemade 59/CC with weak A2 is where I live now. Thanks to your observations, I was able to experiment some with attempts to hear/feel the differences. I'd love a MM1400, can't get over it since Ralle's clips, even though he ended back with the 1300. And a MCBBII. Those two pups seem to be where all the Before & After VHI live. And all the other variants out there of same essential specs. Pickups are yummy.

[EJSLPlexi]

I will say that this is where I stand (at the moment )

I have no doubt that Ed used a Mighty Mite clone of a Dimarzio Super Distortion on that first Van Halen record (in the Franky that is). My 'new' (2011) DSD just totally reeks of that first album. There is a push and warmth to the mids/upper mids along with a presency 'sheen' to everything. The gain and aggressiveness is there as well, which goes missing in my 'Custom Custom' (same 14kish type wind, but uses an alnico2). The palm mutes also have more of that 'peaked' type charector as well (DSD). My 9k stewmac sounds very 1978ish as soon as I put an alnico 2 bar in it. The a5 bar that came in it sounded very '59ish (thinner, brighter).

A

I mean, like Pete's clips show, a 14k ceramic magnet (specifically hex poled) has OBVIOUS Vh1 mojo, while a 9k alnico 2 pickup gets you the '78 tour tone up through VhII tone.

I have not heard the DSD in a ash strat with a fender type trem, all i have is alder super strats with floyds which have the wcr darkburst in them.
so my DSD will not take on the same character as it would in ash/fender bridge. in the alder floyd super strats the dsd sounds very Iron maiden.

[Tone Slinger]

Yeah, the thing about putting a hb'er in a strat, imo, is you got to consider the wood, and the bridge/humbucker distance/ratio. If you got a 'stock' bridge hb'er route (like Fender or After market companies use) and find that you get maybe TOO much fat back or put in other words, 'generic hb'er' type tone, then the pu needs to be brought closer to the bridge. That will sharpen it some, at the expense of losing a tad bit of resonant headroom.

Hard Ash, as we all know, is very bright and imparts that quality to whatever hardware/electronics you got in there. Alder, especially real light weight Alder, can be a bit duller in comparison. Poplar and Basswood can be even duller. Any of these woods though potentially can NAIL any tone. I like the heavier Alder myself (my old Tokai is fairly heavy Alder).

Isnt it Funny how SO many people used the DSD through the years ? Maiden (classic Maiden) used MXR Distortion +'s alot, so thier sound was based alot on that. As far as somebody else getting a sound 'fairly' similar to Ed's VH1 tone, who ALSO used a DSD, I think Ace Frehley's sound on 'Kiss AliveII " has that same gain structure, to a certain degree.

[EJSLPlexi]

of the post first record tones i would love to know what pu this is? still sounds very VH I like. wonder if this is the sh5 duncan custom?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9QT5n4BCW4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I like the aggression he gets here

[Tone Slinger]

I would guess, based on how there is that 'slight' lag in the attack (equates to that 'warmness' that alnico 2 imparts) and how there isnt quite that earlier sizzle/harsh thing, that the pu there is the original Duncan rewind (Ed's first) Ed got in early '78. I'd guess its a Duncan '78 style. As far as a 'blend' of VH1 and VHII in a single pu, I'd say a 'Custom Custom' or possibly The EVH Wolfgang or Frankenstein (arent those both similar to the 'Custom Custom' ?). The MM/DSD is a 14k, as is a Sh-5, so the 'Custom Custom' has that aspect but is warmer and softer (alnico 2).

I think that a DSD with an Alnico 2 would be interesting, since those hex pole pieces do play a role imo.

[Tone Slinger]

Watched that vid again, MAN, that was some stellar shit ! Peeled the paint off the walls. I'm sure a young (14 year old) Akira Takasaki was there. Eddie pretty much 'added' to what everyone else was doing at that time . Loved how the person who loaded that vid was hip to visual/sonic continuity. Very well done

Imagine being hip to current stylings at that time, THEN, hearing Ed . That shit sent everyone who WANTED more, back to thier bedrooms/rehearsal basements, to LEARN more !

[garbeaj]

Watched that vid again, MAN, that was some stellar shit ! Peeled the paint off the walls. I'm sure a young (14 year old) Akira Takasaki was there. Eddie pretty much 'added' to what everyone else was doing at that time . Loved how the person who loaded that vid was hip to visual/sonic continuity. Very well done

Imagine being hip to current stylings at that time, THEN, hearing Ed . That shit sent everyone who WANTED more, back to thier bedrooms/rehearsal basements, to LEARN more !

Especially true for the Japanese who were probably psyched to see this half-Asian guy tearing it up and looking unbelievably cool doing it.

[stef]

I think we are all pretty much on the same page here. I have been listening to (old Ed), then playing, swapping pu's around in my strat, etc. I will say that this is where I stand (at the moment )

I have no doubt that Ed used a Mighty Mite clone of a Dimarzio Super Distortion on that first Van Halen record (in the Franky that is). My 'new' (2011) DSD just totally reeks of that first album. There is a push and warmth to the mids/upper mids along with a presency 'sheen' to everything. The gain and aggressiveness is there as well, which goes missing in my 'Custom Custom' (same 14kish type wind, but uses an alnico2). The palm mutes also have more of that 'peaked' type charector as well (DSD). My 9k stewmac sounds very 1978ish as soon as I put an alnico 2 bar in it. The a5 bar that came in it sounded very '59ish (thinner, brighter).

I mean, like Pete's clips show, a 14k ceramic magnet (specifically hex poled) has OBVIOUS Vh1 mojo, while a 9k alnico 2 pickup gets you the '78 tour tone up through VhII tone.

I agree completely.

+1

[EJSLPlexi]

it is pretty much official that a dsd or MM 1300 is the best bet for VH I but what are you guys using for post VH I stuff?
duncan 59? duncan 78? BKP VH II? rockstah liked the wcr darkburst(8.7K overwound PAF) for the stuff after VH I and he had a incredible ear. I always wondered why he did not just get a 78?

[JimiJames]

it is pretty much official that a dsd or MM 1300 is the best bet for VH I but what are you guys using for post VH I stuff?
duncan 59? duncan 78? BKP VH II? rockstah liked the wcr darkburst(8.7K overwound PAF) for the stuff after VH I and he had a incredible ear. I always wondered why he did not just get a 78?

Yes he did like & use the WCR DB in both his LP & SuperStrat. He like that pickup’s voicing.
He stated many times that the new production DSD is what he used to dial in his spec for consistency. The old ones were different sounding & in Ω‘s.
Did the same R&D for other parts like preamp tube brands. One of the tubes he used early was an ARS. He also favored 1777 & 6402 cones but was working on a newer production...
Actually, locked on those 6402's after hearing Ralle.
Another pickup he was looking at was the MCP BB and not the BB2nd.