String Tension

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Yngve
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String Tension

Post by Yngve » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:19 pm

Hi Guys here is a great web site to work out your tension of your strings, you can edit the left hand box with your own custom gauges, also keep in mind that it has to be well balanced. There has been some talk about even tension, for example:

http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/String ... pplet.html

What gauges do you guys use and have you tried to mix a set up.

Extract from a blog!

Do you ever noticed, when playing guitar and bending strings, that not every string are playable and bendable the same way?? Especially the B and the low E. And I'm not talking about that B is plain steel and E is wound. Do you still don't know what I'm talking about??

The answer is TENSION.

Let's look at the very popular 9-42 and 10-46 sets and string tension:

E .009 13,1 lbs. .010 16,2 lbs.
B .011 11,0 lbs. .013 15,5 lbs.
G .016 14,7 lbs. .017 16,6 lbs.
D .024 15,8 lbs. .026 18,4 lbs.
A .032 15,8 lbs. .036 19,5 lbs.
E .042 14,8 lbs. .046 17,4 lbs.

Do you see any logic in that tension, any pattern? Why the high E is so tight, when B is much lighter and why low E is lighter in tension than G or A? Do you know that answer? I don't.

Simply because there is no correct answer. The only answer is that those 9-42 or 10-46 sets you can buy are bunch of junk. Don't waste you money buying this. You can ask why string companies are selling those sets? Simply - for money.

But why those sets aren't correct in tension? Simply because someone in the past completed those sets and no one really cares what next. It's simple law: demand-supply.

Another questions. Are there somewhere correct sets we can buy in music stores? Who's making them. The answer is yes and no in the same time. Why? Because you can buy not correct or better word - optimized string sets, but only slightly optimized. What I'm talking about? Do you ever seen artists signature sets? Like Yngwie Malmsteen Set or Zakk Wylde Sets? We can call those sets corrected top-corrected bottom simply because those sets not optimized correctly. Those sets have only heavier bottom, because those great guitar players noticed that their bottom strings are much to floppy. But for string company it's another reason to earn more money - Signature Sets.

Someone can tell - we have those LTHB sets (light top, heavy bottom). Those have to be correct. We also have the jazz sets with thick strings. Answer is: NO again.
Lets look at the LTHB set and Jazz Medium set:

E .010 16,2 lbs. .013 27,4 lbs.
B .013 15,4 lbs. .017 26,3 lbs.
G .017 16,6 lbs. .026 32,4 lbs.
D .030 25,0 lbs. .036 34,1 lbs.
A .042 26,3 lbs. .046 30,5 lbs.
E .052 22.0 lbs. .056 25,4 lbs.

Can you see. Those Jazz sets are even worst then other sets. The low E is lighter than high E, it's the lightest string in set. Tell me why? If you don't believe me, check any string company and you will tell who's right. There's only one correct answer.

What about 7-string guitar players, what about sets for them. Are they right? The answer is NO again, because there is no other answer. The 7-string players are treated like dying species, everybody knows about, but nobody really cares. After growing popularity of 7-string guitars when Steve Vai started to play one, strings companies started to make 7-string sets, but who really use those sets? As we know almost every 7-string player buys the lowest string separately. Why? Check the tension of 7-string sets. Then you will never ask why.

E .009 13,1 lbs. .010 16,2 lbs.
B .011 11,0 lbs. .013 15,5 lbs.
G .016 14,7 lbs. .017 16,6 lbs.
D .024 15,8 lbs. .026 18,4 lbs.
A .032 15,8 lbs. .036 19,5 lbs.
E .042 14,8 lbs. .046 17,4 lbs.
B .054 13.8 lbs. .056 14.8 lbs.

Really interesting think. Can you see they only added lowest strings to mentioned before 9-42 and 10-46 sets. Strings companies really cares about 7-string players. They added almost the lightest in tension string in the set as the lowest. Where's the trick. How we can have great tone from that sets. It's impossible.

There is also a growing popularity of extended range guitar (ERG) players. They use 8-string, 9-string, 10-string guitars, even 13-string guitars. What about strings for them. The answer. Strings for ERG are virtually no existent. The is one mass production 8-string guitar offered by Ibanez, but you can't buy any set for this guitar, you have to buy strings separately. But after reading previous sections, do you really want to buy any other mass production set? I don't think so.

What about bass players?
They are using so thick, heavy strings and pay at least few times more then we - the guitar players. Their sets have to be correct. Bassists use them much longer than we, so those sets have to be correct. The answer is NO again. Bassist have strings even worst then we have. Let's check why? I analyzed tension of available and most popular bass sets for 4, 5 and 6-string 34" basses.

4 string set 5 string set 6 string set

C .032 41.9 lbs.
G .045 41,9 lbs. .045 41.9 lbs. .045 41,9 lbs.
D .065 47,3 lbs. .065 47,3 lbs. .065 47,3 lbs.
A .080 40,5 lbs. .080 40,5 lbs. .080 40,5 lbs.
E .100 34,4 lbs. .100 34,4 lbs. .100 34,4 lbs.
B .130 31,7 lbs. .130 31,7 lbs.

Now you know what I'm talking about. Look at those sets. The D string is the hardest in tension, but why? Why strings going to be lighter in tension when strings going to be thicker? The low B is only slightly bigger in tension than A string from guitar jazz set.

So what we can do with that?
We have to optimize those sets in two steps:
1. Determine what gauges are needed to make all strings the same tension when tuned to pitch.
2. Increase the tension as the strings go lower in pitch.

So how it goes (two examples - 6 string guitars and 4-string bass):

WRONG RIGHT
E .009 13,1 lbs. 13,1 lbs.
B .011 11,0 lbs. 13,1 lbs.
G .016 14,7 lbs. 14,4 lbs.
D .024 15,8 lbs. 15,8 lbs.
A .032 15,8 lbs. 17,6 lbs.
E .042 14,8 lbs. 18,9 lbs.

WRONG RIGHT
G .045 41,9 lbs. 41,9 lbs.
D .065 47,3 lbs. 42,9 lbs.
A .080 40,5 lbs. 48,4 lbs.
E .100 34,4 lbs. 50,8 lbs.

Now you know the answer and you have the tool for great tone. Of course you can buy single strings at the music store and make your own set. :shock: :shock:
You should always B sharp, never B flat, and just B natural.

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm - Mykola Skarpheddinson

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marT
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Post by marT » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 am

Isn't it just because they are tuned to different pitch and therefore have different tension?

I understand why some people would like an even tension on their strings but I have been playing with these "inferior" tensioned strings for like 13 years without a problem.

Its not like I even take a bend and go "shit that was harder to bend than the E string" or whatever. It all feels normal to me.

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TomGibbs
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Post by TomGibbs » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:42 am

Yeah i agree with marT, doesnt bother me, if i find there isnt enough tension, i just go up a gauge
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Flames1950
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Post by Flames1950 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:35 am

Now you know the answer and you have the tool for great tone.
No, we don't........we still don't know what each string size rates tension-wise, other than the ones listed, and I'm guessing those are listed at standard tuning, with no usefulness to those that don't tune in that way. And the average Joe has no way in hell of measuring this on their own.

And I'm with the other guys anyway. After playing for about 26 years now I don't notice that my B bends different than my G, and I don't recall ever griping about it when I'd only played a year, or two years, etc. I don't know anyone who does. Which is the real reason string companies package strings the way they do, because no one really notices this stuff. If they did, and changed their habits, string companies would follow along to keep their sales and profits up.
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marT
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Post by marT » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:44 am

I know a guy that sometimes likes to use a .10 as the high E on a 9-42 set because he likes the feeling of it with the other strings.

but yeah in general FWIW, man has not cared or noticed for a long long long time, I don't see why we should start now.

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carlygtr56
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Post by carlygtr56 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:48 am

I substitute gauges all the time.
On a 9-42 set, try a .014 instead of an .016 on the G string.

Same with a 9-46 set. Lightens the overall tension up, IMO

....on a 10-46 set, stick on an .015 instead of the .017 on the G.
Substitute a .009 instead of the .010 on the high E.

You can make a stiff guitar play like butter if you change a gauge here and there.

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Post by 908ssp » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:39 pm

http://www.daddario.com/Resources/JDCDA ... _chart.pdf

There is a complete chart of strings tensions at different pitches. I make my own mix of strings sizes. It does make a difference whether you like it or not is totally up to you of course.
I use not a perfect progression but I like it.
9=13.1,
11.5=12,
15=12.9,
24=15.8,
32=15.8,
44=16.1.

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yngwie308
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Post by yngwie308 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:39 pm

G is Key !! Carl is right about it affecting the whole feel of the sets tension.
yngwie308
http://www.vintagewashburn.com/Electric ... evens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.treblebooster.net/bolin.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Yngve
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Post by Yngve » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:50 am

Hmmmm G-String! :shock:
You should always B sharp, never B flat, and just B natural.

Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm - Mykola Skarpheddinson

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Flames1950
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Post by Flames1950 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:34 am

Yngve wrote:Hmmmm G-String! :shock:
Well, you knew someone had to say it, 'cause we were all thinking it.
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Post by MacGaden » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:53 am

Speaking of G-Strings... I had to buy a Spiderman Costume for my son, because he kept using my wife
MacG.

"Play it right, Dad ! No More Dwiddely Dwiddely !
My son Adam at 3 years old. Best advice I ever got..

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