My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

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zerosadness
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My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by zerosadness » Mon May 13, 2019 3:10 am

Hi, my 50W build seems now stable (no weirds noises since I changed tubes). But after tried to my Orange 4x12 with V30, the amp seems really really loud! I put all the channels at 1 and my house is really vibrating. The sound of the amp doesn't seems to have really started and it need a bit more to have beautiful sound. I think about this crunchy AC/DC tone and if I need to go to this point I think I will kill myself and all the neighbours or bandmates on the practice room with the volume.

- Is it a standard situation? (it's my first plexi) like all of you have this loud volume?
- Do you think a PPIMV can help me a lot?
- Or maybe an attenuator?

Thanks a lot

harleytech
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by harleytech » Mon May 13, 2019 7:06 am

1. Yes..
2. Yes..
3. Or Yes..

danman
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by danman » Mon May 13, 2019 7:53 pm

It's all perfectly normal. Many people, including myself, have gotten the itch to build one of these only to discover later that they are much too loud for most folks. These non master volume amps were meant to be used in large venues before the days of great PA systems and volume restrictions. After building a 1987, I tried the 2204 circuit. The master volume and cascaded preamp does help to get the grind at lower volumes but it still does not sound great until you can really open it up. There are a few things that may help you. If yours has a bright cap over the volume pot, removing it or using a much lower value (100pf) will help to smooth the abrupt nature of the volume pot. The large 4700-5000pf cap used by many will cause the volume to jump up rapidly at the slightest turn. Lower efficiency speakers like Greenbacks will help slightly as will using an attenuator between the head and speaker cab. The most popular option is installing a Larmar or Richmod type PPIMV. I was never very happy with them in my builds but many people love the volume control that they offer. They do affect the nfb loop which changes the sound and feel of the amp when trying to lower the volume more than a touch. Many players have reported good success with the use of an attenuator and ppimv used together in small amounts to lower the volume.

johnnybgoood
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by johnnybgoood » Tue May 14, 2019 1:51 am

Listen to this. If it worked for him, it'll work for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb26D8b ... .be&t=1226

zerosadness
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by zerosadness » Tue May 14, 2019 5:19 am

danman wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:53 pm
It's all perfectly normal. Many people, including myself, have gotten the itch to build one of these only to discover later that they are much too loud for most folks. These non master volume amps were meant to be used in large venues before the days of great PA systems and volume restrictions. After building a 1987, I tried the 2204 circuit. The master volume and cascaded preamp does help to get the grind at lower volumes but it still does not sound great until you can really open it up. There are a few things that may help you. If yours has a bright cap over the volume pot, removing it or using a much lower value (100pf) will help to smooth the abrupt nature of the volume pot. The large 4700-5000pf cap used by many will cause the volume to jump up rapidly at the slightest turn. Lower efficiency speakers like Greenbacks will help slightly as will using an attenuator between the head and speaker cab. The most popular option is installing a Larmar or Richmod type PPIMV. I was never very happy with them in my builds but many people love the volume control that they offer. They do affect the nfb loop which changes the sound and feel of the amp when trying to lower the volume more than a touch. Many players have reported good success with the use of an attenuator and ppimv used together in small amounts to lower the volume.

Thanks a lot for your answer, I did a band practice last night and the sound was so "in your face" :listen: , my big problem, it's the differencies between the amp sound and when i put fuzz on it (typically big muff style), because I came from so clean with the amp and so fuzzy with the pedal and I think put a bit more from the amp will help to change this differencies, but it will be loud for sure... I already have put a 100pf on treble side, and I use only this channel, I tried with the 2 channels (using a mini jack between) but it seems more round and more clean. I used during years this amp on 2204 before I got a 2203 last year, so I prefered mod it to a 1987 to get different amps. I really love my 800, but I want change my sound a bit actually.
I will love do a PPIMV mod but the problem it's about: I do shows with my band and I ask amp for backline on certains dates like festival, and if I learn to play with a moded amp, days of shows it will be a different game for setting up the sound.
So maybe an attenuator will do the job and I can bring it with me. I already got the Torpedo Captor with 20db less, but :shrug: I don't think it reduce the sound a lot. So maybe you've any model it's great for a descent price?
Thanks a lot.

danman
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by danman » Tue May 14, 2019 7:25 pm

If you are handy with a soldering iron, this attenuator circuit works very well with my amps...http://www.marshallforum.com/threads/si ... 285/page-4

I built the "b" design shown on this page and it is one of the best sounding attenuators that I have tried. If you read the entire thread, JohnH posted several designs that he created and tested, as well as a reactive model he and another member came up with. For less than fifty dollars in parts, you can build one to try for yourself. The circuit that I built used switches to give you four levels of attenuation to choose from. I find that this works very well as I can set the attenuator where I want it and then control the volume from the guitar.

danman
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by danman » Tue May 14, 2019 7:29 pm

This is the enclosure that I used to build mine in...https://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Aluminu ... 1599975005

zerosadness
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by zerosadness » Wed May 15, 2019 3:05 am

Oh great! Thanks a lot, I will try the C version, what kind of resistors have you used?

danman
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Re: My 1987 50W is so loud! What can i change?

Post by danman » Wed May 15, 2019 7:57 pm

I order the ones that he specified from Ebay. Finding 25 and 50 watt resistors can be a challenge so I usually just order the cheaper ones from China. They usually take about two weeks to make it here to the US. I prefer the "Dale" branded ones but they can be hard to find so I usually just use whatever I can find on Ebay.

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