ITO Tones rockstah posted

[leadguy]

Great eyes Strat78. I've been looking for them but I couldn't see them but there they are.
I didn't really go over these shots much as I was mainly interested in the Destroyer.

As far as I can tell this is around New Years Eve 1977, still past the VH1 recording date as far as we know.

The trouble with the JBL's in the studio is that the 2 mic tracks are what?

The JBL miced on the cone and the Celestion miced on the side of the cone or vice versa or both mics on both cones etc etc.
I would expect 4 mic tracks from 2 speakers.

One on the cone and one on the side of the cone for speaker 1 and one on the cone and one on the side of the cone for speaker 2.

What we have is just 2 mic tracks and one track is lower and sounds like it is miced from the side of the cone and the other track is higher and sounds like it is miced from the centre of the cone.

[leadguy]

Some New Years 1977 boots.

It depends on Ed having the JBL cabinet miced or hooked up as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZAS36yQRMo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=GsX0QD-ZE ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxallM8p ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=e-egOAu0w ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=8AEbAE9NR ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzdfkW7Y ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[leadguy]

This sounds like a PAF to me and of course it is (there is nothing like 20/20 hindsight), smoother, cleaner and more hollow for want of a better word, than VH1 IMO even allowing for all the variables involved.

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=sCzdfkW7Y ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[vanhalen5150]

Sounds like a PAF to me too.

[T.J.Fuller]

It would be nice to hear JBL clips regardless because all the pedal theories have been tested by Mark,Ralle,Rob and others..

Why not ? ....can't hurt read below.....


....Fender sought a sturdy, efficient driver, and came up with the JBL D120F and D130F (12" and 15" speakers, respectively). Based on the JBL D120 and D130 models used in the hi-fi audio industry—the “F” added to denote Fender OEM units—these speakers had enormous alnico magnets, sturdy cast-metal frames, and large voice coils, and, as a result, they exhibited power-handling capabilities like almost nothing else available in the world of guitar amps. They succeeded in making Showmans hellaciously loud amps, and when added as an option to Twin Reverb combos a few years later, they also helped to make these amps both unfathomably loud and excruciatingly heavy. JBLs classically present firm lows, wita round midrange with an edge of bark and a slightly nasal honk, and ringing, occasionally piercing highs. There are speakers suited to loud playing—when you really want to cut through.

Yeah I highlighted what it sounded like Rob was describing at the start of the thread.

The clip of everyone playing together and then Ed at the end just shows how far everyone has come , but just a little more to go.

Strat 78 has a JBL D120 - .....I guess your up to bat next

[leadguy]

They are a great speaker, a bit brighter than others but to me Celestions will always be associated with the classic Marshall tone.
The JBL's that I've heard remind me more of a Fendery sort of thing, maybe that's because they were mostly in Fenders.

Ed said the JBL's were for the cleans.

[T.J.Fuller]

Is it possible a variaced Marshall ( warmer , browner ) paired with a JBL (cleaner, brighter) yields a more desirable tone ?

not Fendery but, with a better Sting Factor ?

I don't think that tone experiment has been covered yet ......

When I was younger I ran a Marshall thru some Hi Fi speakers at a low volume and the notes just popped out ( ala Eds ITO lead run fill, I had the sting- I had the fidelity but, my Marshall wasn't voiced for EVH back then or I would've tripped out)

I didn't understand the whole RMS thing ...and sadly that project ended early....

with a nice electrical -burnt- toast -smell from the midrange speakers.

[Ed Hunter]

Didnt RR use jbl and celestion loaded cabs? Or was that altec's ?

[vanhalen5150]

I have an original cone JBL D120F in a box somewhere. No cab for it though. If it is in the mix, the mic placement is key and a lot of work experimentation.

[Good Guest]

is it simply a stronger picking technique or even a slight rake of the thumb that produces an emphasis, almost a harmonic on these accents?

or is it a quality found in the GAIN of the amp and/or signal chain?

that STING is almost like the quality of tone you get from a COCKED WAH. i'm not saying a cocked wah was used - no way -

I don't think it's picking technique altho Ed's is pretty unique. Looking at a spectrum of the 29 second mark..if you will...ignore everything under the -45 db level and you'll see the speaker /cab roll off at 5khz witch is normal but you will see a spike at 1.2 - 1.6 khz that is the mxr 6 band not a jbl another spike @ 2 khz that's the amps presence and another @3khz that's the mxr 6 band ...so yep you aren't to far off on your cocked wah as a cocked wah is boosting a narrow range of frequencies and then sweeping it up and down the tone spectrum.

The mxr 6 band is selecting frequencies over an even narrower range and just boosting those specific ones.

29SecMrk.jpg (61.21 KiB) Viewed 2527 times

[vanhalen5150]

Watch those old 6 bands on ebay bids go up now.

So the question is, post production, or it's there from the beginning with the eq's in front.

[Good Guest]

Watch those old 6 bands on ebay bids go up now.

So the question is, post production, or it's there from the beginning with the eq's in front.

I say 'PRE STING" as opposed to studio sting...cause you hear the sting in his club versions..I should go and do a spectrum of that same spot from a club version of ITO just to make sure and post it...then the mxr 6 bands will be going thru the roof alice I hope ther are no mods named alice ..I'm kinda in a paranoid careful what you say or you'll be banned kinda mood.

[vanhalen5150]

I agree. Every live photo has the eq's sitting there on the floor or taped to the amp cab. You only hear it on select notes. EQ>EP preamp> Stock Plexi. Meat and Potatos. Flavour as you wish woth every thing else.

I paid a lot more for mine 2 years ago.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vintage-MXR-6-Band-G ... 27b72d26ac" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Good Guest]

Ed has said many times that the tone coming out of the amp is the important one and that if that tone isn’t right it doesn’t matter how much studio trickery is involved it aint going to work….

Sounds to me that the studio has a hard time getting what is coming out of his amp in the first place not the other way around. His live versions of songs do prove that the tone is pre studio.

Anyways here is an obvious and easier spectrum where you can really see the frequency's standing out in the grass , of the same group of notes from another version of ITO and it spells a nice strong boost at 1.2 khz (could Ed have a tweaked 800hz slider)...... and a 1.6khz boost spells mxr boost in spades along with the amp presence. I find the 800hz to be very nasally and if you have acess to a parametric that 1.2 khz is pretty EVH for sure ..Now people say that there mxr’s are too noisy and for the most part they are right.

If you are using your mxr 6 band before a cascaded circuit you are guaranteed noise at unbearable levels ..if you are using it in a non cascade configuration you will get noise if you use more than one slider wether it be boost or cut…the best way to use it even tho it doesn’t make a nice curve is too just use one slider ..in this case the 1.6khz one boost to taste…then you will have the least noise and the biggest boost where you want it. If you have an ep3 or emulator place it before and it will also reduce noise...

ITOAftZ1.jpg (50.66 KiB) Viewed 2450 times

[T.J.Fuller]

That's some good info right there GG .......Good thing you un-banned yourself to share this.......