FX loops coming to Metro.

[SDM]

Nothing wrong with running the shielded cables under the main board, but the shielded cables don't bend or hold bends as easy as normal wire.

Depends on what amp the loop goes in to, but may ultimately be easiest to run them atop in a Marshall style amp since the gap between loop board and main board isn't huge in these amps (thus less room to make bends there coming up from main board bottom), and the switch is (usually) located above the FX board too (thus necessitating such bends).

[herbvis]

Thanks for the info!

[kdmay]

Can someone please provide the dimensions of the loop board?

I am about to fit a relay board into a 1987 Metro chassis and whilst I would like to mount in next to the rectifier, there isn't enough room on V5s heater pins, so I am keen to mount in right on top of V1 (using the unused heater pins). I would also like to isolate the AC from the signal wires, which will be tricker if I have the board next to the rectifier.

My board measures 60mm in length and I would be left with another 60mm from next to the relay board to the centre of the send jack (if I was to use the far speaker jack, which is currently occupied with a PPIMV which would need to be moved to between ohm selector and the HT fuse).

Yep, getting kinda cramped in there!

[SDM]

Can someone please provide the dimensions of the loop board?

Figure it needs approx 3 1/2" x 1 3/4" of space at least. Board itself is actually a tad bit smaller than that all around, but it sits off the chassis a bit which varies/depends on how many washers/spacers are needed on the jacks.

[kdmay]

Can someone please provide the dimensions of the loop board?

Figure it needs approx 3 1/2" x 1 3/4" of space at least. Board itself is actually a tad bit smaller than that all around, but it sits off the chassis a bit which varies/depends on how many washers/spacers are needed on the jacks.

Thanks for the reply - looks like she's going next the rectifier then!!

Where do you guys usually fit a relay board in a 50w chassis? Do you build them into the turret board?

Or you don't (that is, use relays/LDRs....)

[chunkitup]

Kudos to SDM!! I put your 0 loss loop in an XTC clone and it is butter. The customer wanted it footswitchable in and out and that is what he got and there is zero noise!!! Hell, I used the 2 conductor wire you supplied as one lead instead of seperately with great results. I am super happy about the outcome. Dont worry bro I dont want to reverse-engineer it because I will just offer the loop as an add on and push the cost forward. I just ordered another loop to see how it sounds in a SLO based amp. Fingers crossed, I hope the results are just as good. Good day, Good day!!!

[nico_las]

I added one in my plexi 50 replica. It is just perfect. I had some tweaks to do to recover my original b+ but it's just fine now.

It is a very good product, no loss at all, small, easy to install and works very very well. I'm very glad to rediscover a delay and a reverb in a plexi !!

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/ftpnico/ple ... 1-2011.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's starting to be crowded inside


Happy new year from France

[tonmazz]

Hello,

I'm looking for some help in figuring out where to inject the loop on a Cameron Modded Marshall with a Jose push pull master. I bough the loop but am having a hell of a time getting it figured out. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[SDM]

Saw your email first Tony, so replied to you via email.

To sum up for others though:

Can be tricky with Cameron or similarly modded Marshalls (with Jose's) to install the loop in. Aside from the Jose master itself causing some issue, the zenering (or whatever clipping method is involved) threshold/clipping limit alters the signal strength when it is engaged. These things can make it difficult to get proper levels through the loop at all times, optimize signal to noise ratios at all times. Not advisable to install the loop in the most ideal location (before the master) typically when a Jose is involved, and Mr. Cameron (I believe) likes to do things differently with each amp too. So, hard to give solid advice with unknowns involved.

Best I can do is to suggest installing the loop after the treble pot wiper/before the PI input (just like a regular plexi style amp basically). Not the most ideal setup as signal in the loop and signal to noise ratios are only likely near optimal if the Jose master is cranked up a fair amount. Depends on the Jose clipping threshold, whether it's used, how the Jose master is set, etc.. on how well it may work out. May be best off using a line level version of the loop to help offset (possible) drawbacks from installing the loop post master in these amps too (especially if you tend to play the amp at quieter master volume settings most often, and more so yet if you tend to also engage the Jose clipping most of the time).

The loop can work just fine in these amps, but ultimately depends on how your particular amp was modded, how you actually use it/set it up, etc, things which I just don’t know of course. If possible to contact Mr. Cameron himself, maybe he has some insight on how the loop would best fit into your particular amp. Otherwise can only refer you to the above install location (between treble wiper and PI in) and see how you fare. Can't guarantee it will work out ideally unfortunately, but could work out well under the right circumstances.

[munky16]

Hi steve,
I am very insterested in this amazing loop.
Actually, I do not know anything about amp built and circuit stuffs.
Before my first metro amp built, I have couple of things need to figure out.

For the non-master volume vintage marshall amp, like 70's marshall super lead. People always said crank it up!!! IMO guitar signal will be distorted at power amp stage, and you will get distortion. But, the FX loop is the bridge between the pre-amp stage and power amp stage. If I put a delay or reverb pedal into the loop, and also crank the amp up, the delay and reverb signal will be distorted?
Is that means, if I want to use the loop effect, i have to get a dist pedal before the amp?

I am really a new comer, if i am wrong, please correct me.
Thx a lot

[SDM]

The PI and power amp do add their own distortion in cranked plexi style amps of course. Would be nice, technically at least, to place a loop after the PI but there are 2 different signals driving power tubes to deal with there. These 2 signals are not only different, but also out of phase. In the end it's just not practical to add a loop there, nor in a feedback arrangement.

So, right before the PI is the last place (in the amp itself) we can put in an effects loop (reasonably and practically), is the best we can do for an on board simple setup/solution. A re-amping rig or such that puts effects after the entire amplifier is preferable to some, technically can be seen as "more ideal", but cost and complexity are a large factor there to consider and doing it properly is somewhat of an art in itself. Need a lot more gear involved that just one amp and a loop built in, just the time needed to set up and tear down such a rig (not to mention carry/load it all up lol) is just not practical for most these days. Many that used such setups at one time ultimately come to prefer a much more simple rig over time, realize they can get what they need with just a simple loop and one amp.

Fortunately not all the distortion comes from the PI and power amp of course. There is still a fair amount before the PI in these amps along with tonal shaping/coloring. Even if you can't catch all of it, most find that running effects (particularly time based effects) after as much as possible is still a vast improvement, far better than just running effects up front. In amps with more or a lot of preamp gain (or dirt/boost pedals pushing the front), master volumes, the loop can produce very "studio like" pristine effects, especially if the power amp is kept at a clean/cleanish setting. Makes such amps perhaps most ideal for a loop in general, but that doesn't cancel out the benefits a loop can have in a plexi syle amp.

Even though the PI can distort reverb or delay signal feed back to the amp, the decay associated with such effects, in addition to the preamp gain ahead of the loop, still often adds up to a "natural" sound all around. Not quite "studio quality" perhaps, may not want to go overboard with ridiculous amounts of reverb or delay in these amps (fully cranked at least), but the end result is usually more than good enough for those who just want/need a very simple setup/effects solution.

Some other benefits of a loop later in the signal chain vs. effects in front of the amp:
- A lower noise floor heard from the effects. Instead of an effect's noise floor being re-amplified again and again by every preamp stage, the noise floor is only amplified once by the loop's return before it hits the PI.
- The end of the preamp is a great place to have EQ control (why tone controls are usually located there), but many find stock tone controls lacking and thus use EQs or such in the loop. As opposed to running an EQ up front, you'll not only have less noise, but usually have MUCH more actual tonal control with it in the loop.
- People can also use a volume or boost pedal in the loop if they desire to push the PI/power amp harder, or alternately, use it to cut the signal back if they want to clean things up a bit.

So, benefits a loop can have in these amps go beyond just time based effects.

The loop is very simple to use, is built right in the amp and gives results that are just what many want/need for live and everyday use. Just fine for many in studio use too, but the main idea is just to have a very simple, no hassle, no extra gear needed, kind of setup that allows effects to sound much better than just running them in front of the amp would.

Any way, hope that made sense. This also applies to any loop in general , though not all loops are created equal of course...

Last note, and I hope Marty doesn't mind, but to hear how the ZL loop can sound in a regular JTM 45 running reverb in the loop, can listen to a clip here (first part is dry):
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... ID=6629839" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[MVDW]

I want to install this loop in my 2204 build, however, I have a few questions.

This is a pic of my build, it wasn't finished fully in this pic but it serves the purpose.


I want to install it in the two holes next to the footswitch jack on the left. I was curious whether I have enough space there or not. And if that is a good position in general. I'm aware that the spacing of the jacks is different than I have. What is the easiest way to mod those jacks so that it fits. If this loop is a possibility I want to use the footswitch jack to make the loop switchable instead of the toggle switch.

Thanks.

[SDM]

Really hard to judge the space you have there from the picture, so I'd suggest looking at my second post on this page above. There you'll find the board dims. The jacks sit atop the board, 1.5" center to center, and roughly centered on the board overall. So from that, I'd just make yourself a cardboard template and see how well it may or may not fit. If you have a couple jacks lying around, could stick them atop the template (push pins/lugs into cardboard) to help verify the all around fit.

[Deric]

The current loop boards have had built in provision for easy set up as line or pedal level for a good while now. Hopefully that option will be added in the store directly, but Metro can set them up easily as line level now if you ask when ordering.

So.....is it possible to make the level switchable?

[SDM]

So.....is it possible to make the level switchable?

All I can say on that it is not something we do not officially support. There are no direct provision built in for that.