THE Major/nat. minor scale pattern!!!

ScottW · Post by **ScottW** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:26 am

rockstah wrote:http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=503342 "happy too"
just a jam using Ionian and major pentatonic in the key of C!.

and using the les paul on this track!

Mark

Great! You sound like Petrucci, I likey.

Mark, based on what you said in another thread, I went out and picked up the Guitarport & Rifftracker combo. Fantastic suggestion. I think the first thing I'll do is create a backing track like your "happy too" in C. Then I can just play & play & play, up and down the neck.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:28 am

yes but it doesnt show them in the same key!
there is so much to be said for learning all 7 patterns in c, one key - it will show all those patterns but so much gained learning the patterns in order the way they lay in one key!

here: http://www.markabrahamian.com/ROCKSTAH_7_PATTERNS.jpg
download to your desktop for better viewing if need be.

Mark

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:31 am

rockstah wrote:you may have a vamp on E7. basically speaking mixolydian would cover that chord since the chord comes from that mode or scale degree.

mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
dominant chord formula 1 3 5 b7

in basic blues (I IV V) we force the b7th in on every chord - it's like we are changing the mode at every chord change because the b7th is so important to the mood -

BLUES IN E

E7 - mixolydian
A - if we continue to play E mixolydian against the A chord, there may be... trubble. the G# is going to sound bad - it's half a step off the tonic of the A chord - and FOR SOME REASON yer ear wants to hear a G (the 7th) of the A but yet the b3 of E, the key we will ultimately need to resolve to. And we started with E major - but the IV chord is begging us to play the minor 3rd of E...

that's the stuff that I don't get about the blues - i want to know why the IV chord allows us to slip into minor until we come back to I at which point, a major 3rd feels like we have just a freakin' home run. it's that back and forth between major and minor that makes it totally unique to me - maybe there's jazz stuff that does the same stuff - but what floors me is that the blues is universally accepted as the norm - yet it's got tons of bizarre rule breaking stuff in it all over the place.

i'm repeating myself. what i really want to know though is... more blues vocabulary. I want to have 10 options at every chord change ready to go in my brain like 2nd nature - instead of the 2 or 3 i probably use over and over...

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:41 am

it allows that because your ear has been trained to hear that vocalbulary. period.
there are other kinds of music with 1/4 tones and shit that may sound wacky to us cause we simply havnt been exposed to it like something like the blues. shiat yer talking about a staple in music. a staple vocabulary.. its like teh jazz expression " if u hit a wrong note play it again and it will sound like you meant to do it" same with some of the rules in blues that seem to be being broken and yet sound good. youve heard that mistake so many times it sounds good! no other explanation.

and yer right it woudl sound wacky but when playing e mixolydian just dont hit the 3rd of e(G#) over the a chord! there are plenty of other notes in e mixolydian that work over the a or IV chord. simple as that. or play modalely over all chords - 3 scales!
but when playing any mode one doesnt have to play all the notes.

[/b]

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:53 am

rockstah wrote:...but when playing any mode one doesnt have to play all the notes. [/b]

yeah - i am still recovering from the fact that i learned the dorian mode before i learned any real blues licks - so, there i was playing every freakin' note in the dorian mode in all my patterns - i still have to make myself NOT play the 6 and the 2 in order to get that cool angularity that makes pentatonic sound mean and bad ass.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:00 pm

rgalpin wrote:
rockstah wrote:...but when playing any mode one doesnt have to play all the notes. [/b]
yeah - i am still recovering from the fact that i learned the dorian mode before i learned any real blues licks - so, there i was playing every freakin' note in the dorian mode in all my patterns - i still have to make myself NOT play the 6 and the 2 in order to get that cool angularity that makes pentatonic sound mean and bad ass.

sounds like you need to learn the 5 pentatonc scales

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:54 pm

by "learn" what i need to do is "learn to use" - "learn to deviate from the norm"

learn to bridge the distance between head knowledge and muscle memory - in order to tap 2nd nature speaking without having to think in more positions more often.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:31 pm

like i said learn the 5 patterns. if you know the whole neck you will, in reguard to pentatonic, and major scales for that matter, the kewl thing about playing the exact same notes but in 4 or 7 other different positions is those same notes lay in different areas of the neck with each pattern. this gets you playing different licks. also gets you thinking about what notes you are actually playing instead of just playing that one pattern you know and not giving it much thought after that.

example:

play these riffs in triplet patterns: 1 an a 2 an a 3 an a etc

on the middle two strings ascending and descending:

1. (4th string): 6 7 9 (3rd string) 6 (4th string) 9 7 - repeat( as fast as you can.

2. 4th string 6 7 (3rd string) 4 6 4 (4th string) 7 - repeat( as fast as you can.

3. (4th string) 6 (3rd string) 2 4 6 4 2 - repeat( as fast as you can.

all three examples use the exact same notes g#, a, b, c#.

u will notice not only by effect of your individual technique but simply the way the notes lay each lick or phrase here sounds different. each one lends itself to a natural phrase by way of where the notes are layed out. each one can have advantages.
like #3: in this example for me lends more to a legato sound with how easy i can pull off the notes with the left hand were as #1 lends more toward a real staccato approach with muting of the left hand. you could take these 3 riffs and analize them all day long if you are looking inward at your technique as well as "other possibilities" from approaching new riffs to nailing down technigue.
try and pick each note of these riffs as much as possible.
try and pull and hammer each note of these riffs as much as possible.
all three are unigue. all three have character by how the notes layout.

so,in any blues key there 5 notes ( well6 if you count the blue note)so its up to you to find your own way to take full atvantage of these 5 notes... all over the neck.

the example i gave is to show knowing 5 pentatonics as well as 7 major scales lends itself to a whole slew of things to be realized by the player.

Mark

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:51 pm

quickly did these to demonstrate the unigue qualities of each mode.

I kept the groove and tempo the same on each, made apropriate changes to chords im playing over and just played a bunch of notes in each mode to give a change to identify with each.
i believe each one of them will remind you of a song or a player or and even a feeling or emotion that u indentify with... and it makes sense cause anyone playing 7 note harmonies is playing one of these modes!
for sure i hear Satriani in Lydian demo and im not even trying to sound like satch... really. thats cause he loves the mode Lydian.

anyway thought i would share and perhaps get some interest in modal playing without - or atleats trying to not sound like a jazz player.

or if ya wanna sound like a jazz player thats fine too!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus ... dID=676619

Mark

ScottW · Post by **ScottW** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:01 am

rockstah wrote:made apropriate changes to chords im playing over and just played a bunch of notes in each mode to give a change to identify with each.

That's great! I appreciate your doing those clips - right now I'm memorizing the 7 scale patterns and the clips are perfect for helping me hear the flavor of the modes.

So, I can see that you changed chords for some of the modes. Can you say how you went about choosing chords for the modes?

For Mixolydian for example (not talking exactly about your clip, just sayin) the main thing I think about for Mixolydian is it's a major 3rd with a flatted seventh. So, for an A riff, I'd think about including a G chord, the flatted 7th. Does that sound right?

What about the other modes, what changes came to mind right away for some of the different modes or flavors?

On the flip side, I'm thinking that if you need to solo over a set chord progression, you'd first listen to hear what chords there are so you can pick a mode that fits with the chords (or fights with the chords if that's what you're after). Any thoughts on that?

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:45 am

rockstah,
that is an excellent illustration man - thanks for doing that. i've never heard such a clear example of the moods/modes side by side like that.

very interesting how the backing chords you used from mode to mode fall into a descending pattern:

Ionian - 5 4
Dorian - 4 3
Phryg - 3 2
Lyd - 2 1
Mix - 1 7
Aeo - 7 6
Loc - 6 5 (b5

)

very cool.

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:51 am

it's interesting because it shows where the 5th and the 4th of the Ionian mode appear in the other modes. not the notes. but the physical place in the pattern. did you do that on purpose?

i definitely heard familiar flavors -
Lydian - Xanadu, E to F# stuff with open E and B strings
Mixolydian - VH breaks where Ed falls into 1 - 7 back and forth stuff while dave raps
Aeolian - Stairway to Heaven - and every Scorpions hit off Blackout

mightymike · Post by **mightymike** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:22 pm

rockstah wrote:this why i recommend first off , without any thought of what you are going to be doing with them or how they work in theory,learn the 7 major scale patterns and 5 pent scales. they should be known like the back of your hand. after that its alot easier to learn their application. so learn the 12 patterns!

Mark

Learning this 20some years ago made it all make sense. I couldn't agree more. There was a page in the Heavy Guitar Bible that explained it. It really simplifies things.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:27 pm

great man - so u have a handle on things then and everything i posted here makes perfect sense to you.

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:34 pm

rgalpin wrote:interesting how the backing chords you used from mode to mode fall into a descending pattern:

Ionian - 5 4
Dorian - 4 3
Phryg - 3 2
Lyd - 2 1
Mix - 1 7
Aeo - 7 6
Loc - 6 5 (b5 )

did you do that on purpose? is there a reason why you chose those chords?