Clip: Choke Comparison [No Pepsi]

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Tue May 01, 2007 10:31 am

Freebird wrote: I'd like to know whether the feeling to play them makes more different then soundwise?! I guess that 10H makes interactivity a little stiffer? Or is it the opposite?

Daniel

yes it did feel stiffer - just ever so slightly - maybe i wouldn't call it stiffer - because it didn't feel stiff like hard cold - it was more like it felt labored and slower like molasses in comparison - like you you were having to push it up a hill and the 3H is running free. that is a wild exaggeration but it illustrates the difference as i perceived it.

interesting that the OT comparison i did between the '74 Dagnall and the Merc 100JM OT had the exact same difference. Merc was fuller and relatively slower feeling and the Dagnall was more airy and unrestricted sounding. neither one was bad at all - just different.

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:01 pm

rgalpin wrote:it was more like it felt labored and slower like molasses in comparison - like you you were having to push it up a hill and the 3H is running free. that is a wild exaggeration but it illustrates the difference as i perceived it.

That's a nice visual explanation. So when I understand it alright you say

10H = thick fluid as honey
3H = thin fluid like beer

So maybe a good choke could be a honey beer, somewhere in the middle

.

Daniel

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:13 pm

6H honey beer! perfect!

again though - i wonder how much of it is to do with the Henries measurement vs possible physical differences in the materials or manufacturing process... ??

does Merc do something to these irons that gives them that honey feel across the board?

Freebird · Post by **Freebird** » Tue May 01, 2007 12:46 pm

rgalpin wrote:does Merc do something to these irons that gives them that honey feel across the board?

They sure have their recipes! I don't know and I haven't much experience in that. But if you think it over there are many factors as parameters you could experiment. type of iron (gives you the inductance), length and gauge of copper-wiring (gives you the ohmic resistance, type of wiring as nested or so (gives you the capacitance).

Daniel

ChuckLogan · Post by **ChuckLogan** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:13 am

The 10H sounds better to my ears. . .. I was expecting too hear the 3H overtake the 10??

After that I would llike to hear a 15 or 20H.

Great comparison.

Thanks

ChuckLogan · Post by **ChuckLogan** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:13 am

The 10H sounds better to my ears. . .. I was expecting too hear the 3H overtake the 10??

After that I would llike to hear a 15 or 20H.

Great comparison.

Thanks

novosibir · Post by **novosibir** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:37 am

Meanwhile I've listened again and again to both the choke clips - at least 20 times, maybe 30 times - haven't counted it.

First of all - my congrats, rgalpin! You've played both clips with such an even accuracy, that one might think, a computer was programmed to play the same line two times.

Second - although the 3H choke is sounding more agile in comparison to the 10H, there's a small amount of fizzies audible on top of the notes.

I think, when deciding for the 3H choke, a bigger fizzy cap of 100p or 150p might solve this.

Larry

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:18 am

Larry, i use a 47pf fizzy cap. after all the reading of 100pf and even 150pf and trying it i never quite get why someone would want to use such high values here. it just makes things murky. like a smeared color on canvas to my ears.
Mark

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:33 am

ah!! you know i changed to the 100pf fizzy a LONG time ago and never really compared it to the 47pf. next time i have the amp open i'll do an A/B on different sizes.

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:40 am

novosibir wrote:Meanwhile I've listened again and again to both the choke clips - at least 20 times, maybe 30 times - haven't counted it.

First of all - my congrats, rgalpin! You've played both clips with such an even accuracy, that one might think, a computer was programmed to play the same line two times.

Second - although the 3H choke is sounding more agile in comparison to the 10H, there's a small amount of fizzies audible on top of the notes.

I think, when deciding for the 3H choke, a bigger fizzy cap of 100p or 150p might solve this.

Larry

i do hear some fizz... in comparison though, the 3H just seems to be more open. but... the thing i hear in the 10H that i like is (and this is really weird - but this is the way i see it) if you imagine the 3H to be a smiley face, the 10H is a smiley face that has a furrowed brow. it's as if the 10H has a more serious almost mean sound - maybe darker is the simple way to put it - i like that quality - but it;s not worth sacrificing the openness i think.

regardless of which is "better," the most valuable take away for me is - now i have a feel for what characteristics of the tone are getting affected by the choke. i think.

ChuckLogan · Post by **ChuckLogan** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:33 am

After listening to this again . .specifically the very first few notes, and it sounds like the 10H has more harmonic content . . It has more overtones . . I think this is why the 3H appears to be moore "open" to some??

Great way to compare choke values . . Thanks

OdgeUK · Post by **OdgeUK** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:42 pm

First of all, great tone! I'd be happy to achieve either! Very very cool sound on both, lot's of articulation and growl and warmth.

The 3H had more bite and attack. I'd want to play Van Halen's Mean Street on this. IT had that lovely open quality to chords when they ring out.

The 10H, I thought, initially seemed fatter, but it has an artifact in the sound that just bothers me enough to make 3H the clear winner. A sort of odd harmonics, compressed, squashed sound.

Ultimately though, if I was down the pub playing with either of those tones. I'd bee grinning from ear to ear

ChuckLogan · Post by **ChuckLogan** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:05 pm

Well put . . .

Amit · Post by **Amit** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:58 pm

For my ears, not enough deference, IMHO, to waste time on what choke to use. just grab what ever you have in your pile and be done with it.
You would get much more tone shaping swing from simple - and cheap - preamp cathode and plate resistor value games, let alone changing first gain stage tubes...

On the other hand it would be much more educating to hear choke vs. power resistor or choke vs. cap input

ChuckLogan · Post by **ChuckLogan** » Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:15 pm

There is some logic to that line of reasoning but we have also seen that the magic happens not from any one component but from the sum of the parts used . . Granted some parts more then others . .

Very very cool comparison . . nice work