tone caps question

[texwest]

what is the tonal difference between using a .047 and a .022 tone cap in a humbucker loaded guitar?
Thanks

[Bad Kitty]

A .047 would be WAY too bassy. Those are for single coils. The higher up you go the more treble that's being bled off.

Mike

[Flames1950]

A .047 would be WAY too bassy. Those are for single coils. The higher up you go the more treble that's being bled off.

Mike

Heck, original 50's Strats used a .1uF there!!!

[Bad Kitty]

I was in my local electronics supply place a few months ago and came across a whole bin of .027 Vitamin Q's. They were priced at 10 cents a piece. I grabbed all of them and went to pay for them and the guy behind the counter said, "What the hell would you want with those? They blow up! There just paper and oil."
I didn't really want to tell him that the .022 VitaminQ's are going for about $15.00 each on the bay and elswhere.
That's what I use in all my humbucker guitars.

Mike

[texwest]

Seymour Duncan shows .047 on his wiring diagrams so thats what I put in my guitar. So I'll have to try a .022 i guess.

[WhammyBar Allstar]

Have any of those Vitamin Q caps left? I'd buy a couple if you do! OC local...

[fillmore nyc]

Seymour Duncan shows .047 on his wiring diagrams so thats what I put in my guitar. So I'll have to try a .022 i guess.

Unless you're trying to clone some vintage wiring scheme, the tone cap is just personal preference. NO tone caps "give" you more bass--they just bleed more or less treble off to ground, depending on the value of the cap, giving the impression of increased bass. The actual amount of bass is the same, its just that treble frequencies are louder to the ear than bass frequencies at the same given wattage, so you hear them as louder. When they are removed by a tone cap, the bass appears to be more prominent. I still find an .022 cap to be too muddy for my tastes, so I use either a .01, or combine caps to make something in the range of .005 to .009. That produces a really usable tone control, IMO. An .047, or a .1mfd cap makes the guitar very muffled sounding. Another cool little mod is to get a 4 or 5 position rotary switch, and keep the first position lug open (no tone cap), and have gradually increasing cap values in the next positions. So if you used a 5 position switch, you could have 1st position with no effect / 2nd a .0047 cap / 3rd a .009 cap / 4th a .015 cap / and 5th a .022 cap. Kind of a poor mans vari-tone. Also, you could install a push-pull switch tone pot, and connect 2 caps of choice to the switch, giving you 2 different cap options with the pull of a switch, and of course, no effect either way when the pot is fully clockwise.

[GUITARmole]

what is the tonal difference between using a .047 and a .022 tone cap in a humbucker loaded guitar?
Thanks

Not much if you use a no-load tone pot

I don't like 'traditional' tone controls much. I think rotary switches with multiple capacitors or traditional wiring with no-load tone pots is a better setup.

From the Vintagevibeguitars pickup site:
"A 0.047 mF cap has a larger capacity to remove treble frequencies from the guitar signal than a 0.022 mF cap. Small rotations (< 1/8
turn) of the tone pot when a 0.047 mF cap is installed makes very noticeable reduction in treble frequencies. The 0.022 mF cap has a
smaller range and provides more sensitive control of the treble frequencies."

If you use either cap with a no-load tone pot it your tone will be the same with either one when the tone is on "10".

[45auto]

what is a "no-load" pot?

[darkbluemurder]

A no load pot has its carbon trace cut at one end so it's out of the circuit when turned up full. With a normal tone pot you have the cap connected through a 250k or 500k resistance to ground whereas with a no load pot you have infinite resistance.

[GUITARmole]

A no load pot has its carbon trace cut at one end so it's out of the circuit when turned up full. With a normal tone pot you have the cap connected through a 250k or 500k resistance to ground whereas with a no load pot you have infinite resistance.

There's a good tutorial here that tells how to make your own (or you can pay $13 a pot and buy a Fender branded one ):

http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/pots.htm

The advantage to a no-load pot is that when it's on '10' you have NO treble bleed. Normally when you have a tone pot and cap in the circuit you still have a small amount of treble rolloff even when it's dimed (on 10). -That's another reason why people prefer different cap values (besides the difference in the pot taper that they make)...the higher the value the more the potential treble loss can be, even when the tone pot is maxed. I like the no-load tone pots because in my opinion you get a slightly more clear and detailed sound when the tone pot is completely out of the circuit...by turning the pot down slightly you get the full resistance value of the pot and it sounds exactly like a regular tone pot/cap combo.

[Billy Batz]

Seymour Duncan shows .047 on his wiring diagrams so thats what I put in my guitar. So I'll have to try a .022 i guess.

Unless you're trying to clone some vintage wiring scheme, the tone cap is just personal preference. NO tone caps "give" you more bass--they just bleed more or less treble off to ground, depending on the value of the cap, giving the impression of increased bass. The actual amount of bass is the same, its just that treble frequencies are louder to the ear than bass frequencies at the same given wattage, so you hear them as louder. When they are removed by a tone cap, the bass appears to be more prominent. I still find an .022 cap to be too muddy for my tastes, so I use either a .01, or combine caps to make something in the range of .005 to .009. That produces a really usable tone control, IMO. An .047, or a .1mfd cap makes the guitar very muffled sounding. Another cool little mod is to get a 4 or 5 position rotary switch, and keep the first position lug open (no tone cap), and have gradually increasing cap values in the next positions. So if you used a 5 position switch, you could have 1st position with no effect / 2nd a .0047 cap / 3rd a .009 cap / 4th a .015 cap / and 5th a .022 cap. Kind of a poor mans vari-tone. Also, you could install a push-pull switch tone pot, and connect 2 caps of choice to the switch, giving you 2 different cap options with the pull of a switch, and of course, no effect either way when the pot is fully clockwise.

You can tell when you roll back theres less gain. It sounds cleaner and since its all bass it seems like the compression effects in the amp kind of 'take up the slack' from the missing treble and mud it up. I kind of have a catch 22 with lower value caps. I feel tha samne way- they take away too much treble. But with the lower caps I feel like I dont get the subtle tone rolloff when you back it to about 8 or 9 plus when its all the way off I feel like Im playing with a half cocked wah