National Steel Modded With a DeArmnd Pickup How Bad...

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:44 am

will this sound?

I think this well played steel will sound somewhat down n dirty thru a JTM45.

Looks like a cxool mod and yeah, I will open tune it if I git it.

I had an old National from the same period that had a huge thick neck which was ok but the bridge was pulling and needed repair. I think I gave it to somebody.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... CA:US:1123

This doesn't look like a new mod does it?

http://www.provide.net/~cfh/triolian.html

fillmore nyc · Post by **fillmore nyc** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:23 am

Thats a strange pickup, though. Where's the "A" polepiece? I wouldnt go TOO much higher in price on that. If you ever try to re-sell it, it might be tough to get your money back, plus, overall, that guitar is pretty beat up, with all those holes in the neck, and the mods to the body to accomodate the pickup.
I have a couple of old Nat's, and originality plays a big part in what they're worth. That old Tri is cool, and probably would sound wicked thru the right amp, but amplified Nat's DO feed back REAL easily. Have you ever checked out Lenny Gerthoffer's site? (www.vintagenationals.com). He's got some really nice Nat's, and he's a great guy to deal with. I bought a very early steel bodied style "O" from him a couple of years ago, and its probably the best sounding Nat I've ever had.

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:30 am

Good point.

I've played many nationals. Fuller's on the 10 loop in Houston has the largest collection I've seen. When I spent some time down there I played
many of em. New ones allways sounded different ( not bad though)
I don't care for the sound sample on vintagenational.com
I don't think its an accurate representation, these guitar are also very percussive when used in that way.
I agree again about the feedback we'll see I have some smaller amps I can dial it in with.

The pickup, yes it is strange and may sound that way. Why would DeArmond make a 5 pole pup? Is it to seperate the bass more?
It looks like its been played for awhile so It might have sounded good.
If it does play nice and sound good I'm not too cocerned about resale value.

We'll see!

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:57 pm

hppe this doesn't drive the price up, Elmo J used these 5 pole pickups
in his acoustic's in the 50's

I think a lefty might have played this steel guitar upside down strung righty.

mwm523 · Post by **mwm523** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:09 pm

wide slide wrote:hppe this doesn't drive the price up, Elmo J used these 5 pole pickups
in his acoustic's in the 50's

I think a lefty might have played this steel guitar upside down strung righty.

I think you're onto something wide slide. The upside down pickup, the location of the controls and jack, and the wear pattern on the back of the neck indicate this guitar was played lefty for a long time.

fillmore nyc · Post by **fillmore nyc** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:09 pm

Im not real sure, but Im thinking the lack of an "A" pole might be an attempt at either string balance, or maybe it was originally some sort of steel guitar, or even a banjo pickup??? BTW, did you notice the crack in the headstock above the "D" tuner? Thats pretty nasty looking. Those holes in the headstock are bizzare too. They appear to go competely thru the headstock. I wonder what the person that drilled them was trying to accomplish? I dunno, the way they look threaded and beveled out at the edges, I'd say that screw eyes were in them, but why so many?
A couple of other things I noticed: the hole in the cone cover plate above the low "E" string, kinda in line with the controls, and also the screws holding the palm plate over the cone biscuit are not stock. That palm plate woulda been tack welded on, and the palm plate also has a hole in it that shouldnt be there. Just for what its worth, I would tread carefully with this one... Its got a lot of questionable things going on.

(PS-I just noticed that at this time, its up to $1627.23. IMHO, too much for that particular guitar... just too many issues).

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:33 pm

Yeah I believe thats a DeArmond pup, at least thats what it looks like on a close up.
There weren't too many choices anyway.

I'm goinig to ask the seller about the marking on the top finish that looks like a stress mark. Just at the base of the neck above the pickup. Wondering if cutting in the pickup caused it. If it is a stress mark I could re enforce it with a block off the back wall I think. This might keep the bid low also, who knows.

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:15 pm

here's some pictures, in this video, with what looks like the same type
pickup. Some picture are clearer than others.

I've heard talk of him using a 5 pole pup.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGPa-BdA ... re=related

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:11 pm

How did the bid get back to $800

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:32 pm

Hey Fillmore nyc,

you've got a real valid point about some issues, my main concern is if it can play, sound good and hold up.
It sure looks played. Will it hold up? Dunno.
She said it can be returned, thats a little unusual in a good way.
I've got some older 50's amps that look well played fore many years and
the tweed looks torn up and stained. These well played amps sound so good cause they've been played for all these years. Speakers and a few cap changes but for the most part these players keep runnin.

we'll see.

Is it /she worth a cheesesteaK sandwich?

fillmore nyc · Post by **fillmore nyc** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:03 pm

wide slide wrote:How did the bid get back to $800

Where did you see it back to $800?? I just checked it, and its up to $2001. Only an hour and change left on the auction. Like I said... for my money, its got way too many issues and mods, but if its "your" piece, go for it. Plus the fact that you can return it doesnt hurt. PS--I magnified her pic up to 250%~~a little hard to tell, but she dont look too bad!!

/

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:06 pm

Speaking of resonators....see new thread.

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Hey Fill,

the bid did drop to 865 +/- after I asked her the neck stress question

HEY THIS IS REEEEAL history NO Doubt about it!
The rig has seen many hours and nights no doubt.

Wanna hear somthin real funny... (warning off the topic)
they are having an election ( which happens often) here in PR so there is
this huge parade outside my condo apt. LOL This one's HUGE so he must have alot of pull.

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:53 pm

this is a steal at this price for this vintage rig like this.

If the DeArmond pickup works, that alone will be worth alot in terms
sound. I may need to rewind it. I'll soon find out.

THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:34 pm

I'll be gettin this National tomorrow or Tuesday, but I'll want to keep the Mojo intact, meaning I'll keep it the basic way it is. So I'm wondering who would be able to rewind this old 5 pole pickup and get it close spec. wise to where it was?

Not only the windings would need to be counted but other factors are related to it, like the wire size and type. Can a pickup be duplicated without ever hearing the original?

I wish I knew what this old pickup sounded like.

mrk