One Man's Opinion

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:48 pm

Found this linked on ebay from the LPF, one mans opinion of vintage guitars:
10 Reasons Why Vintage Guitars are Not Worth the Money.

1. Modern guitars are made exactly the same way that vintage guitars were made in the old days.

I think the roots of the whole

ohmygodtheykilledkenny · Post by **ohmygodtheykilledkenny** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:08 pm

FrankieFeenixx · Post by **FrankieFeenixx** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:24 am

Lots of sound reasoning there, but also some of the thinking is a bit suspect. I do think that guy has too much time on his hands however. I could never be bothered to write that much unless I was getting paid for it.

Zoso · Post by **Zoso** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:38 am

I couldn't agree more, and I feel the same goes for vintage amps. They are WAY overpriced and the value has been blown up for the same reasons. Although to be fair, there is a much bigger difference in the quality/sound of modern vs. vintage amps than in modern vs. vintage guitars. But if you know where to look (Metroamp) then you can have an amp that is just as good or better than vintage pieces for a fraction of the price.

wide slide · Post by **wide slide** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:21 pm

couldn't agree more???

Personaly IMO that article is BS $300,000 guitars, yeah icons.

Since I earn my own money ( mommy or trust fund isn't part of my experience) and buy used well played gear that are from these vintage years, I feel I have perspective of the other side of what was mentioned
in the well winded post. My first thought was baised or as the previous
reply mentioned a paid / sponsored rag.

Now, what I find is somebody like myself can look, like one looks for
Indian Chief bike parts, and find well played vintage parts to adopt and use. I must stress well played because this maybe easly overlooked
by the investment collector and may be not only a great buy ( cheaper
in price than a new Custom Shop) but a Bell Tone Machine. There
is a reason old gear/ amp are worn down to the bone.
I have an old 1937 National Reso the has been played well and heavily
modified with ( very old mods) a Dearmond pup that looks like the first
modern pup made and the neck was at one time fitted with 3 additional
string and tuners. This guitar was for a Player and used to where the neck is worn ( not relic ) I bought this, by the way it sounds haunting, for
less than a new model goes for. When I play this I can't help feel
the legacy behind it along with the sound.

Lastly ( I have more but choose to end ) one can still find mid 60's post CBS under 12,000 - 16,000 and CBS 20,000 just look they are there
maybe not museum pieces. I saw 3 mid 70's 50W marshalls in UK
for about a 1000.

summing it all up what was the point? Was it for people here in this forum to ralle on it for some reason?

moving on...

ws

fillmore nyc · Post by **fillmore nyc** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:12 pm

Excerpts from this guys "thoughts":

Modern guitars are made exactly the same way that vintage guitars were made in the old days.

People like to believe the myth that the guitar they own is somehow special and rare.

In many ways, the materials available today are superior.

So people need to get over this attitude that PAF's are somehow superior. PAF's are no better than the pick-ups in the Les Paul hanging right now at your local music store.

Tuning pegs on today's quality guitars are far superior.

Electronics of today are light years ahead of the stuff from the 1950's.

I am sick to death of morons telling me that PAF's from the 50's sound better than modern humbucking pick-ups. That's just a lie.

Anybody that doesn't believe me should accept my $10,000.00 challenge.

However I do know one indisputable fact- there is nothing unique or different about a vintage guitar. They were made the same as guitars made today; they sound the same; they look the same and they play the same.

I've owned and sold literally thousands of vintage guitars.

I hate to be the Alan Greenspan of the vintage guitar world but sorry ladies and gentleman, there is irrational exuberance afoot in the vintage guitar world.

Nobody Cares But YOU and a few other guys that haven

Tuco · Post by **Tuco** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:44 pm

Fillmore, nice response. That idiot shouldn't be allowed to come within 100 feet of a musical instrument, let alone own one.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:53 am

Thanks Fill. I was pissed reading that 'article' so I didt post a reply yesterday. I really agree with the main jist of his article and all his main points and I think most reasonable people would. Theres no mojo in vintage gear taht cant be done today (tho we at least know its total BS that manufacturers do it as well as anyone). I mean we all do clones here so we all agree really. But while making that point in the article he flat out and no other way about it spews arrogance and contempt for people that break down gear. It seeps of it. The whole thing is a veiled insult to people who are gearhounds like all of us guitar or amp or whatever! This is a vintage amp site. Its the same 'stop talking and play' posturing you hear from trolls. And that same old tired rhetoric I hear every know it all spew in every corner 'no one else can hear the difference between this or that so who cares'. I CARE. Im the musician, I make the music not the fucking audience and whats more important to a musician then feeling good and confident about their instrument.

I mean. You step back and look at some discussions over the most microscopic things and you can see where these attitudes comes from. And yeah the super high end vintage guitar world is the craziest of all but WHAT is wrong with experimenting with gear? Its not for someone to make people feel like idiots for it. We all know what the vintage market is. And dont kid yourself. There was not a single thing taught or learned from that article as was laid out in its intentions. Show me one new argument made, or a new aspect, or anything there other then for its own sake. That article was no more then an excuse for aristocracy no matter what he thought he was doing.

ohmygodtheykilledkenny · Post by **ohmygodtheykilledkenny** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:33 am

"I CARE. Im the musician, I make the music not the fucking audience and whats more important to a musician then feeling good and confident about their instrument. "

I agree with you on this point BB, when your gear sounds good, you tend to play better, when you can feel every note.

I just agree with the point that vintage guitar prices are out of control. Nothing that was made then cannot be recreated, it just takes a hell of a lot of effort.

Travis

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:10 am

I just agree with the point that vintage guitar prices are out of control. Nothing that was made then cannot be recreated, it just takes a hell of a lot of effort.

I think we all can agree with that.

Zoso · Post by **Zoso** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:50 pm

That's the main point of what the guy was trying to say, IMHO. He did kind of come across as an A-hole, but I don't think he was against experimenting or chasing tone. I feel he was just saying that, contrary to what some folks say, you don't need a REAL $10,000 vintage Marshall or a REAL $50,000 vintage Les Paul to get it. Those things sound great, but they can be recreated, as ohmygodtheykilledkenny said.

I do agree completely with BB on the "no one else can hear the difference so who cares" thing. I've heard that so many times I lost count. What's really sad is that I've even heard it from other guitar players.

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:20 pm

That sounds like an Ed Roman rant...

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:14 pm

NY Chief wrote:That sounds like an Ed Roman rant...

It sure does. Just like Roman his intentions were nothing to do with the subject but to put all the stupid little people in their place.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:45 pm

My opinion is that the overall tone of the 'rant' is regret.
When I post on the LPF, I have to mind my p's and q's or a ton of shit rains down on you from the masters, but once the attitude is over you can learn a lot there.
This guy is Romanesque for sure and this was in an auction for a used '52 reissue Telecaster

I copped it from the LPF.

I know personally the whole vintage scene is screwed and it is about 'investments' these days and #$$%% like the Burst Brothers over at Hollywood GC are prime examples of this.
I remember Gil Southworth at vintage shows going around in his bare feet with huge wads of cash and buying '59 Bassmans and Precision basses, just buying up a storm, this was in the early nineties and then he went all internet I heard.
I can't say I have much respect for most guitar dealers either, any one with the name dealer in their title, is suspect to me.
It was fun while it lasted..
yngwie308

fillmore nyc · Post by **fillmore nyc** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:06 pm

yngwie308 wrote: I know personally the whole vintage scene is screwed and it is about 'investments' these days and #$$%% like the Burst Brothers over at Hollywood GC are prime examples of this.

You're not kidding. I knew Dave Belzer (one of the "Burst Brothers") pretty well when he owned a music store in Lynbrook, NY. I fuckin' SAW the (actual, NOT reissue) '59 Sunburst LP he "scored" from a kid that inherited it from his ailing dad. He traded the kid a silver faced Fender Super Reverb for it, and danced all over the store bragging about how this kid didnt know what he had, and how he just got the score of a lifetime by ripping this poor kids ass off.
Sorry to be so brutal about it, but that "Burst Brother" piece of shit should get shot in the neck while he's choking on his fucking dinner.
"Burst brothers"... fuckin' typical GC human garbage.

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