floyd Rose

[fillmore nyc]

Of course a FLoyd will not sound as good as a stock style Fender trem. A Fender style trem can't float and stay in tune like a Floyd either. Different tools for different styles of play. People should stop complaining about certain gear when they are trying to make it into something its not.

I also never hear anyone talk about the different tones you CAN get with a Floyd that you cannot get with a Fender style trem when the tremolo is set to float.

ILLM's question was how to get the Floyd to sound fatter and at least as good as a stock Fender trem. I think most players knows that Floyds are capable of things a Fender trem isnt.
His attempt at trying to make it something its not is the whole point here. Its NOT a great sounding bridge compared to most... he's asking questions about how to change that.
The "different tones" (the thin ones) you can get with a Floyd that you cant get with a stock Fender trem IS what he's trying to change. I heard a few guys trying to help, but IMO, I didnt hear any of them complaining in this thread.

[loud and dirty]

It might be important to find out if we are talking about a genuine Floyd Rose or Schaller tremolo verses a Licensed "knock-off." There is certainly a huge difference in tone between steel and crappy "pot" metal bridges. I've been building and repairing for just about 17 years now. I've been playing longer than that. Some of the best sounding longest sustaining guitars I have had my hands on had floating Floyds. I have replaced "knock-off" bridges with the genuine article and the difference was sometimes amazing. Also the installation of the mounting studs is critical. If they fit loose or are leaning you can lose quite a bit of tone and sustain. On cheaper models I will sometimes wrap a layer of copper shielding tape (mainly because it works and I have plenty of scraps) around the threads of the post before screwing it in. The tight fit helps with stability too. With the bridge off I would pull up on the studs and see if the slide. If they do, it's time to dowel and drill. A REAL Floyd will brighten a guitar some....but it won't ruin it.

If a genuine Floyd is too bright or thin sounding, try a Gotoh trem....They seem to be a bit more mellow. My personal fave is still the Schaller version though.

Oh yeah, make sure the grooves where the strings rest in the saddles are clean and DRY. Any oil or dirt will KILL your sustain.

[IloveMyMarshall]

It might be important to find out if we are talking about a genuine Floyd Rose or Schaller tremolo verses a Licensed "knock-off." There is certainly a huge difference in tone between steel and crappy "pot" metal bridges. I've been building and repairing for just about 17 years now. I've been playing longer than that. Some of the best sounding longest sustaining guitars I have had my hands on had floating Floyds. I have replaced "knock-off" bridges with the genuine article and the difference was sometimes amazing. Also the installation of the mounting studs is critical. If they fit loose or are leaning you can lose quite a bit of tone and sustain. On cheaper models I will sometimes wrap a layer of copper shielding tape (mainly because it works and I have plenty of scraps) around the threads of the post before screwing it in. The tight fit helps with stability too. With the bridge off I would pull up on the studs and see if the slide. If they do, it's time to dowel and drill. A REAL Floyd will brighten a guitar some....but it won't ruin it.

If a genuine Floyd is too bright or thin sounding, try a Gotoh trem....They seem to be a bit more mellow. My personal fave is still the Schaller version though.

Oh yeah, make sure the grooves where the strings rest in the saddles are clean and DRY. Any oil or dirt will KILL your sustain.

I agree, it wont ruin the axe but she sure does change the tone and character of her. I mean Vh1 is living proof of that once ed went with the floyd his wood tone was gone or to my ear anyways?

[fillmore nyc]

It might be important to find out if we are talking about a genuine Floyd Rose or Schaller tremolo verses a Licensed "knock-off." There is certainly a huge difference in tone between steel and crappy "pot" metal bridges. I've been building and repairing for just about 17 years now. I've been playing longer than that. Some of the best sounding longest sustaining guitars I have had my hands on had floating Floyds. I have replaced "knock-off" bridges with the genuine article and the difference was sometimes amazing. Also the installation of the mounting studs is critical. If they fit loose or are leaning you can lose quite a bit of tone and sustain. On cheaper models I will sometimes wrap a layer of copper shielding tape (mainly because it works and I have plenty of scraps) around the threads of the post before screwing it in. The tight fit helps with stability too. With the bridge off I would pull up on the studs and see if the slide. If they do, it's time to dowel and drill. A REAL Floyd will brighten a guitar some....but it won't ruin it.

If a genuine Floyd is too bright or thin sounding, try a Gotoh trem....They seem to be a bit more mellow. My personal fave is still the Schaller version though.

Oh yeah, make sure the grooves where the strings rest in the saddles are clean and DRY. Any oil or dirt will KILL your sustain.

You made some really good points there, L. & D. Im curious about the copper shielding tape. You use that on machine threaded bolts into bushings in the body? If so, thats a great idea in that application. I know some guys that use Teflon tape, but IMO, that connection is too "soft". It seems like it would almost act like a damper for vibration.
I've also been building / repairing / breaking ( ) guitars for longer than I care to admit ( ). I stopped using trems years ago, but Im always interested in other guys methods of the mechanics of getting better tone and sustain pertaining to anything "guitar".

[yngwie308]

Fillmore, let me use the example of Gary Moore again, on his Victims of the Future tour in 1984 when he was using a vintage tremelo equipped Strat, he did use lots of Boss pedals at the time, including a DS-1, which may skew the vintage trem/amplified wood example.
I know what you are saying about the first two Van Halen albums, that's why I like them as well, they sound like you stuck a microphone right against the body and fed it through some gain and amplified the hell out of it, me likee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40OR-JtfP_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkSiEvt1-Ko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8ahi7j ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuJP4tdl ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvDkZe3lHJQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3wg6_ILNW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRvrjs7Qh5s
The '62 reissue he is using, less so than the '61 Strat, does sound like Gary Moore but Gary favored at that time boosting the single coils with a distortion pedal, which is different than Ed's eq boost,ect.
Just comparing a vintage trem sound, though VH's tone is moore musical, to my ears, they both play completely differently.
yngwie308

[fillmore nyc]

The '62 reissue he is using, less so than the '61 Strat, does sound like Gary Moore but Gary favored at that time boosting the single coils with a distortion pedal, which is different than Ed's eq boost,ect.
Just comparing a vintage trem sound, though VH's tone is moore musical, to my ears, they both play completely differently.
yngwie308

I agree that VH's tone is more musical for sure.
As far as stock Fender trems are concerned, some guys just know how to make 'em work. Its hard to argue with Hendrix's tone, or your own namesake, Yngwie Malmsteen's tone. To me, they just did it right: a relatively stock Strat thru a wall of Plexi Marshall's.
Just once in my lifetime, I would love to plug into a rig like that, set it on meltdown, and go for it.
Plugging into a full stack in a small room is fun, but plugging into a full wall of Marshall's in an arena HAS to be life changing.

[loud and dirty]

fillmore,
Yep, I use it on the threads. It can be hard to get those little scraps to stay in place sometimes. Like I said, the main reason I even use it is because I have so many little scraps.

IloveMyMarshall,
I agree that bolting on a hunk of steel will change the tone. But I wouldn't use EVH as an example. He was constantly tinkering with gear and using so many different guitars. It's just impossible to judge what you are hearing, especially given we are talking about recorded music. A lot of his early stuff was a Les Paul and the "Korina" Explorer. Both 24 3/4" scales. Obviously there would be a huge difference in tone going to bolt-on maple neck 25 1/2" guitars regardless of the trem. Plus he changed pickups in everything. I have installed plenty of Floyds on guitars that didn't originally have them. And then set them up and played them through the same gear before the customer picks 'em up. There is always a difference. Sometimes they actually sound better.

Either way, they aren't for everybody. That's for sure. I have 2 friends/customers that are huge EVH freaks and play so much like him that it's scary. I don't even touch a tremolo bar when those guys are around! I do have 3 guitars with Floyds, all of which I think sound great. On the other hand, my girlfriend has 30 plus guitars and most have Floyds or copies. Some of here early BC Rich and ESP guitars sound incredible.

[yngwie308]

From Ed's guitar tech on tour in 2004:
7. Of all the guitars Ed uses during the course of a show (Wolfgang's, the
5150 Frankenstrat, or the new EVH Charvel's) which does you prefer and
why?

The guitars were fine, the problem was Floyd Rose tremolos. They are
simply too soft. I'm not speaking for Ed here, you have to ask him for his
opinion. As a tech I have a right to my own opinion when I'm responsible
for it. When they first arrived on the market they were machined brass and
they were a serious piece of machinery, but for a long time they have been
made of some sort of softer molded metal. They are too soft for the abuse
Ed puts them through. They also sounded alot better when made of brass. Ed
is VERY rough on them, its a big part of his style. Ed requires all the
bolts to be locked down as hard as possible because if its not it will
move. He really gives them a workout, never seen anything like it. I was
replacing so many Floyd parts you wouldn't believe it. Saddles, string
blocks, you name it. Pretty much a nut every 2 or 3 shows, sometimes
daily. We would crush them or strip them out. The tolerances are not tight
enough either. Many of the nuts were slightly different heights. That can
be a pain when forced to change them that often. The design of a Floyd is
great, just wish they were a bit tougher. It works well for most players
but Ed is not most players. If I had to pick one guitar however it would
be the 5150 Frankenstrat. It sounds great but its just really cool. Alot
of history. Also has an original old Floyd on it.
I had this problem with the Schaller originally on my Steve Steven's Washburn, soft metal ! Changed it for an OFR made by Fender at the the time, under liscence, not one problem since, sounds much better too
yngwie308

[NY Chief]

[quote="fillmore nyc]Plugging into a full stack in a small room is fun, but plugging into a full wall of Marshall's in an arena HAS to be life changing. [/quote]

WITHOUT A DOUBT, fill!!

I played the Ritz (where was that? 3rd St?) a bunch of years ago. It was a 5000? seat hall? We opened for Ian Hunter for 2 nights. Man, that was fun gig. I was setting up my amp when the sound man put me through the house PA. MAN, I sounded like fukin Townsend!!! What a roar, baby!!!!

[IloveMyMarshall]

Yngwie, so you think looking for a older model floyd would help? I was thinking this from the get go. Good point! The knock off or copy floyds are basically junk then?? This might be the deal right here I have a copy of a floyd ..I know why didnt you say that from the start. Im getting ready to replace her tho looking as we speak, would you replace the nut as well? I wish I wouldnt of purchased thet WCR DB lol damn it Jimmy lol none of my other guitars sound nearly as good as the one with her LOL

Its also finding the right pup for this guitar basswood with maple veneer and knock off floyd which Im replacing. I have the sh-11 Now Im torn somedays wow she sound great but damn it nothing like that damn Dark Burst, I think Im going to try this TZone and leave the Mag (V) in her!
Fk I need to hit the lotto now I need more stuff lol never endin here I swear will we ever truly be happy and content?? Chasing tone will drive ya nuts lol I have three guitars and I want all three to have different tone and character Bodies, Alder, Hard ash, Basswood!
ILMM

[45auto]

my floating fender bridges stay in tune virtually perfectly. under hard playing/bending, but i don't believe they sound quite as good as resting solidly on the body which never stayed in tune despite making spring sets, mixing string gauges, using every type of lubricant imaginable, etc. i played a strat like that for several years & just had to continually "pop" the trem back in tune.

[NY Chief]

Is the Floyd that Warmoth currently sells the "good" version or cheap material version? Anybody know?

I just put one on a Franstrat build and it sounds OK to me. Didn't use the Rose locking nut. Used a graphite nut and locking Sperzels instead. Stays in tune great

[Tone Slinger]

Great points guy's ! I see everyone's points. As far as explaining the tone difference between a Fender and Floyd bridge, I'd say the floyd is alway's gonna be a bit brighter. Also, distorted palm mutes dont quite sound as 'togather' with the floyd.

I see the 'wood' factor that y'all are talking about. The floyd really does take that away. I point to these sounds as references.

1) Listen to that first A chord at the beggining of "Eruption". A stock Fender bridge lets that vibrant sound ring through, where as the Floyd doesnt.
2) "D.O.A", also has lots of that resonant wood tone, as well as the actual tremelo work being a bit more 'personable'. A floyd just has that one 'wang' sorta thing to it, like at the end of "Mean Street" or "Drop Dead Legs".

I think Ed got great tones using a Floyd on some of the "Fair Warning" songs (Mean Street, Sinners swing, Hear About it Later, Unchained, and One Foot Out The Door). That was the fierst album Ed used a floyd on, having only used floyds on tour before that (the yellow and black strat, and that bolt on flying star. Ed put a floyd on frankie while on tour for thier third album. I think his set up, as far as how he ran his amps, was like he always did it at that point, as well as eqing at the board. By Diver Down Ed had just let things sound like they inherently were. And by doing so, let the TRUE sound of a floyd come through. Listen the the clinky 'buzzing sound on the chords on "Where Have All the Good Times Gone'. That, to my ears is what a floyd does to the sound of a guitar period. High, medium or low gain for that matter. Its the same with 24 3/4 scale Gibsons. Just Listen to Schon on some of those early to mid 80's live clips. On same show tunes, the black Les Paul with the floyd sounds crappy compared to when he uses the one with the stock bridge.

[yngwie308]

I thing PING are the only officially liscenced, exact OFR copy, IIRC.
Try to find an old Kramer, good luck or Hamer, with an original FR.
It has been well know that the harder metal first Floyds are best and yes replace the nut too, I did!
http://www.floydrose.com/main.html
mailto:info@floydrose.com
http://www.floydrose.com/pdf/brochures/ ... ochure.pdf
There you go buy a new one from Uncle Floyd and email them about the metal used!!
yngwie308

[loud and dirty]

So what some people are saying, using EVH as the example, is that the Floyd was the only factor in his tone being different? Not his tubes, amps, speakers, cabinets (grill cloth effects tone), microphones (huge difference between a Shure and a Sennheiser), miking techniques, going through rack effects,pedals, playing hundreds of different guitars made of varying woods (he used everything from stock Strats to LP's to Tele's to Dan Electro Guitars), constantly changing pickups, different recording techniques and machines, the producer's ear,etc....

None of those factors contribute at all to his tone? My point is that it is simply not possible to base an honest opinion on the tone of a single component of a guitar from listening to a STUDIO recording. There are simply too many variables.

Look, a Floyd does change a guitar....That's easy to agree on... But I just don't think using studio albums recorded a year apart, or more, is the best way to judge the difference. Playing two equally well constructed instruments, high quality parts and a real Floyd) is a much better way. A lot of people have low opinions on Floyds because they have played "licensed by" on cheap guitars.