Alnico II vs Alnico V (for early EVH)

Strat78 · Post by **Strat78** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:22 pm

bmf5150 wrote:
leadguy wrote:I downloaded the Super 70 spec image like that with the bottom missing because of how my dumb computer downloaded it. I think I got it from a Ibanez catalog. I'll try to find the Ibanez catalog but I don't know if I can because I've forgotten where I found it. Seymour Duncan has a Alnico 8 but I don't know if the magnet is similar to the Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet, probably not. You could try buying some old Super 70 pickups or maybe Greco pickups but they don't come up that often and when they do there are quite a few people after them. I wish I would have kept my Super 70s from my old Ibanez and the guitar as well.
im sending my super 70 to winder aka highorder to copy it for me..
stan

There is allot of factors that these winders need to take into consideration: what is the copper wire sheathed in, the pole material, the alnico 8 (aged over 30 years!!!). Ha ha, don't let them cut into that super 70, they might ruin it!

On another note, I have a suspicion that the Greco pups are not alnico 8 but more like AII's, because the 8 characteristics are not there (still very killer pups though but a little spongier than S70's, hear clips.):

Super 70, sorry about the crazy reverb and the rehashed clips:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460486
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5804064
Greco:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6388785
The opening chords and after the solo are a hard ash strat w/S70's, the rest is the Greco Destroyer including the solo:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5759008

ps. I'll send you that jpg, since it is a picture that I posted a couple months ago of the original hang tag that came with my 77 Destroyer.

Gainiac · Post by **Gainiac** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:26 pm

BTW, a PAF magnet is 1/2" by 1/8" by 2 1/2" long.

How do you record those tracks with the backing music so right up there in the mix? How do you get Eddie's guitars out? Or is that your band?

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:30 pm

Strat78 wrote:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5804064

That is SIIIIICKK!

Strat78 · Post by **Strat78** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:25 pm

OK, here is a clip I just slapped together with the Greco Destroyer using a mid 70's Mighty Mite Distortion (13.45k) with an alnico 8 magnet (swapped out of a broken super 70). The mighty mite originally had a ceramic magnet which sounded not so great. There is something intriguing to the rhythm tone but the solo tone is a little naked. The pickup is about 1/4" from the strings but it was the only way to tame some shrill highs that were pretty terrible. More experimentation needs to be done with other guitars because my Greco has a bowed back neck making the the G,B and high E pretty weedy sounding(I don't want to touch the truss rod since it has not been adjusted in 30 years). I don't know if this tone is VH or not but I kind of like it.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460961

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:57 pm

Strat78 wrote: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460961

cha-dee cha cha - cha-dee cha... yeah... yeaaaaahh...

dude ... that is some smokin' stuff.

are you still using a POD? with those chops, we gotta hear you heat up some glass bruthah!

when it goes into full saturation it's a little much - the breakup loses its integrity - i wonder if it would hang together more if you moved the pickup even farther from the strings.

i gotta try an alnico 8 now - it sounds like its just a monster that needs to be tamed.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:13 pm

Great playing Strat78 ! Thats a Destroyer, right ? Didnt Ed use Chris Holmes,stock, 'un' chainsawed Destroyer for alot of the WACF album. I think that whatever amp setup you were playing through, was good too, but maybe not quite as exact as your Destroyer and actual chops, still thats a good sound. I bet through Robs, Marks or Ralle's set up, it would have been so close it would have been SCARY. Great playing man.

YHWH · Post by **YHWH** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:04 pm

Strat78 wrote:OK, here is a clip I just slapped together with the Greco Destroyer using a mid 70's Mighty Mite Distortion (13.45k) with an alnico 8 magnet (swapped out of a broken super 70). The mighty mite originally had a ceramic magnet which sounded not so great. There is something intriguing to the rhythm tone but the solo tone is a little naked. The pickup is about 1/4" from the strings but it was the only way to tame some shrill highs that were pretty terrible. More experimentation needs to be done with other guitars because my Greco has a bowed back neck making the the G,B and high E pretty weedy sounding(I don't want to touch the truss rod since it has not been adjusted in 30 years). I don't know if this tone is VH or not but I kind of like it.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460961

... sounds a little "pushed in"... mid-EQ -wise I mean. Maybe because it's a "hot" wound pup it sounds like that.

Hope the Alt 8 isn't scooped... I ordered one a while ago.

Strat78 · Post by **Strat78** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:15 pm

YHWH wrote:
Strat78 wrote:OK, here is a clip I just slapped together with the Greco Destroyer using a mid 70's Mighty Mite Distortion (13.45k) with an alnico 8 magnet (swapped out of a broken super 70). The mighty mite originally had a ceramic magnet which sounded not so great. There is something intriguing to the rhythm tone but the solo tone is a little naked. The pickup is about 1/4" from the strings but it was the only way to tame some shrill highs that were pretty terrible. More experimentation needs to be done with other guitars because my Greco has a bowed back neck making the the G,B and high E pretty weedy sounding(I don't want to touch the truss rod since it has not been adjusted in 30 years). I don't know if this tone is VH or not but I kind of like it.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460961
... sounds a little "pushed in"... mid-EQ -wise I mean. Maybe because it's a "hot" wound pup it sounds like that.

Hope the Alt 8 isn't scooped... I ordered one a while ago.

Don't worry, I habitually add a smile curve in post editing just to warm up the coldness of the PODxt. With my old 50W marshall this pickup is a little smother than the super 70 but still very raw and wriggling and plentiful in the mids. I still prefer the super 70 but for now I've built up a pretty good supply of old Mighty Mites to experiment with. Incidentally it was a mighty mite that was in Edwards Destroyer from 78 onward.

Strat78 · Post by **Strat78** » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:27 pm

rgalpin wrote:
Strat78 wrote: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6460961
cha-dee cha cha - cha-dee cha... yeah... yeaaaaahh...

dude ... that is some smokin' stuff.

are you still using a POD? with those chops, we gotta hear you heat up some glass bruthah!

when it goes into full saturation it's a little much - the breakup loses its integrity - i wonder if it would hang together more if you moved the pickup even farther from the strings.

i gotta try an alnico 8 now - it sounds like its just a monster that needs to be tamed.

It's fun revisiting these old VH tunes as an adult and discovering how much they were wasted on the youth of the day! I'll try another clip with the drive backed off and then lower the pickup a bit more. I need to have a go at that truss rod first. Is it clockwise that bows the neck into the strings?

leadguy · Post by **leadguy** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:11 am

Not bad playing Strat78. I think if Strat78's Ibanez Destroyer was used with Rockstah's amp and the eq and echoplex and pickup height etc were all adjusted it would come very close. In Strat78's Runnin with the Devil clips there are elements of the tone that match the original but due to gear differences it's not a perfect match and the original Runnin with the Devil just screams alnico 8 to me. The Greco pickups in the Greco Destroyer (U-2000) might not be alnico 8. There are so many different model Greco pickups (about 5 or so). I've got the cheaper model Greco pickups (I think they are U-1000) and they sound close to Super 70s to me.

YHWH · Post by **YHWH** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:45 am

Strat78 wrote: Don't worry, I habitually add a smile curve in post editing just to warm up the coldness of the PODxt.

Kewl. The buzz over @ the seymourduncan.com forums is that the Alt 8 has mids galore but is not a very bright pup. Perhaps a Neal Schon "polepiece snip" mod will bring out the missing highs...

With my old 50W marshall this pickup is a little smother than the super 70 but still very raw and wriggling and plentiful in the mids. I still prefer the super 70 but for now I've built up a pretty good supply of old Mighty Mites to experiment with. Incidentally it was a mighty mite that was in Edwards Destroyer from 78 onward.

... the rhythm part Ed plays on that Niciolette Larson clip sounds like the Destroyer... no PAF "honk" to it but relatively hot and raw sounding. Maybe the Mighty Mite pup was in it for that session. Amp-wise. the tone he got for that clip is also what I'd want to hear in a bone stock Marshall, not a tremendous amount of gain per se but useable enough.

leadguy · Post by **leadguy** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:52 am

Tracking the Ibanez Destroyer changes.

Ed says that he did the Destroyer Shark mod after VH1 and it sounded different and he thought he had ruined the pickup so he changed the (stock Super 70) pickups.

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... ez19kg.jpg

Ibanez Destroyer (has a Ibanez Destroyer pickguard) in 1976 (before VH1) with stock Alnico 8 Super 70 pickups that would later become the Shark Destroyer

Shark Destroyer in 1978 Japan (after VH1) with stock Super 70 in the bridge.

By 1979 the stock bridge Super 70 had been replaced as Ed says in the article.

So VH1 would have been recorded with a (Silver) Ibanez Destroyer with Super 70 pickups and there is something of the same sort of tone when he's using the Strat so I'd say he's using a Super 70 in the Strat or he's using a Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet in another pickup in the Strat.

sadwings75 · Post by **sadwings75** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:24 am

I just ordered an alnico 8 from the link posted; also curious to try out the alnico 3 and 4 so I ordered those as well.
I've got a JB, '59, and a '59/custom custom hybrid pickup to try these in; I'll let you know how the different magnets change the sound in these.

rgalpin · Post by **rgalpin** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:19 am

sadwings75 wrote:I just ordered an alnico 8 from the link posted; also curious to try out the alnico 3 and 4 so I ordered those as well.
I've got a JB, '59, and a '59/custom custom hybrid pickup to try these in; I'll let you know how the different magnets change the sound in these.

how do you secure them in the pickup? glue? rubber gunk stuff? what's it called? where do you get it?

harddriver · Post by **harddriver** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:32 am

Strat78 and Leadguy,

What color is the magnetic winding wire around the bobbins?

Orange, Red, Purple, Black/Brown?

Do you know what insulation was used on the wire?

Have you measured each individual coil for resistance? What do they measure?

I am asking because a well respected builder is considering building a super 70 type pickup and he wanted to know more details. He does have a supplier for Cast AlNico 8 magnets.

So aside from actually finding an old one this might be the next best thing. I'll keep you updated, if you could answer any of the questions that would be very helpful in our research.