I Think I Don't Like Humbuckers

Roe · Post by **Roe** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:35 am

A5 is the strongest of the alnico magnets you'll usually see in pups (excluding alnico

. a5 sounds more like ac/dc while a2 sounds softer and more compressed. degaussed a5 has the best of both worlds IMO: sweet and punchy, from EC to angus

jfhudak · Post by **jfhudak** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:53 am

Roe wrote:A5 is the strongest of the alnico magnets you'll usually see in pups (excluding a8). a5 sounds more like ac/dc while a2 sounds softer and more compressed. degaussed a5 has the best of both worlds IMO: sweet and punchy, from EC to angus

Cool! Thanks for that. I might pick up a couple of A5s for the BurstBuckers just for the hell of it. Supposedly, my Lindy T-Top clones will be done this week.

I hate throwing stuff away but so far, all the Burstbuckers I've had have been pretty worthless. Maybe the A5s will improve them a little.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:43 pm

There will be a humbucker to end all humbuckers coming soon, more I cannot say, but hang on, it will be worth the wait. I am bored with H/B's myself, thus dropping the cash to get this baby to the present setting of Kill

P90's forever!!!!!
yngwie308

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed May 21, 2008 4:44 pm

Yeah, I dislike the a2 magnet. The a5 is more alive,focused and punchy sounding. What is the difference in symetrical wind vs. assymetric wind ? Whats the sound difference ?

jfhudak · Post by **jfhudak** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:04 pm

Tone Slinger wrote:Yeah, I dislike the a2 magnet. The a5 is more alive,focused and punchy sounding. What is the difference in symetrical wind vs. assymetric wind ? Whats the sound difference ?

Don't know on the wind thing. I'll ask Lindy when my T-Tops are done. I just went by his shop to get a pair of magnets today. I'll install them and report back.

Weren't PAFs usually A5 mags? Hell I don't know, and I don't really give a shit anymore. All I want is a humbucker that sounds good. So far, all of the PAF clones I've heard sounded freaking horrible to me. The only HBer's I ever liked were the T-Tops I had almost 20 years ago. They were A5 mags.

So far, my Telecaster and my Les Paul Junior walk all over every other humbucker guitar I've ever owned.

jfhudak · Post by **jfhudak** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:38 pm

Fuck, I give up. I put the A5 in there, and it thickened it up, but it still sounds like shit. Jesus H. Keyryst, I've never owned pickups that suck as bad as these Burstbuckers.

At least it doesn't sound anemic like the A2, but now it sounds muddy. What a fucking ripoff these things are.

Coot Boy · Post by **Coot Boy** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:29 pm

I don't know if anyone will agree with my feelings on buckers but I've been making my own pickups for 3 years, singles, hummers and P-90s, both full size and hummer size. I play Marshall amps so I only have a limited perspective anyway but with humbuckers, I find they all sound like crap unless you add some drive after them, going straight into my Marshalls, JTM-45, Plexi 100 and a 45/100 clone, they all sound lifeless n dull yet people who have bought my pickups ALL say great things about them, humbuckers included

Anyway for mine, I do love jerking off with a boosted bucker every now n again but you have to boost em unless of course you have a high/er gain amp which I have never had. That's my findings mixed with my taste anyway. I'm more of a strat dude though.

Mynameisfritz · Post by **Mynameisfritz** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:01 pm

I think a humbucker requires a different kind of playing than a single coil - just two different worlds you can't compare. You CAN get a punchy growlin' sound out of a single coil - like the Reverend has shown many times - but if it comes to subtle attack and dynamics, nothing can beat a single coil. In other words: you can do Allmans with a single coil, but no SRV with a humbucker. A humbucker in parallel always just sounds like a bad compromise to me.
That said, humbuckers CAN sound great and percussive in their own way too, but that depends on may other things. The clips of Udo are the best proof here. It's a science of it's own - Udo released a few brilliant articles on that. I'm pretty sure the wood plays a major role here. A humbucker must have the opportunity to breathe...
Here's another clip:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mgdsYWVFr1Y

Since I got a '69 SG Standard (with '57 classics) a few days ago, I'm just not convinced about any later or RI SG models anymore - just my 2 Euros here.

Oh and - off topic - have you ever heard of that one: Stell' Dir vor es geht und keiner kriegt's hin.

Roe · Post by **Roe** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:11 am

Tone Slinger wrote:Yeah, I dislike the a2 magnet. The a5 is more alive,focused and punchy sounding. What is the difference in symetrical wind vs. assymetric wind ? Whats the sound difference ?

assymetric will be more singel coil like. here's jeff's description:

# 7.3k - 7.5k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Classic "T-Top" tone. The lower output doesn't drive your rig as hard as typicl "PAF" winds but these can work well for vintage rock tones with a cleaner character.
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Even Wind - Warm vintage tone with a hint of natural compression. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Nice and smooth. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 2 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "PAF" tone.
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Even Wind - Sweet vintage tone the rounder punch of A5 on the wound strings and brighter top end as compared to A2. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. More of a balanced "stereo" character than an asymmetric wind.
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 5 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Brighter and more open than the same wind with A2. Midrange emphasis generally increases with increasing resistance. Excellent "classic PAF" tone.
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Even Wind - Open/balanced tone with more highend feel and a tighter bottom than AlNiCo 2 though with a bit less power. Good response to pick attack, pinch harmonics, etc. Has a little more "air in the tone."
# 8.1k - 8.9k AlNiCo 3 Asymmetric Wind - Similar to even wind, but with a bit more edge/cut on top, a bit of low-mid emphasis, and good harmonic "swirl". Not as warm as AlNiCo 2 but better for really dark guitars or when you like more highend feel and overall open character.
http://www.highorderpickups.com/

Roe · Post by **Roe** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:21 am

jfhudak wrote:Fuck, I give up. I put the A5 in there, and it thickened it up, but it still sounds like shit. Jesus H. Keyryst, I've never owned pickups that suck as bad as these Burstbuckers.

At least it doesn't sound anemic like the A2, but now it sounds muddy. What a fucking ripoff these things are.

try adjusting the polescrews. a strong a5 magnet might give a somewhat harsh sound

jfhudak · Post by **jfhudak** » Thu May 22, 2008 9:28 am

Roe wrote:
jfhudak wrote:Fuck, I give up. I put the A5 in there, and it thickened it up, but it still sounds like shit. Jesus H. Keyryst, I've never owned pickups that suck as bad as these Burstbuckers.

At least it doesn't sound anemic like the A2, but now it sounds muddy. What a fucking ripoff these things are.
try adjusting the polescrews. a strong a5 magnet might give a somewhat harsh sound

Yeah, I tried that. Also tried lowering the pickup. I discovered during the course of all this that the stock BBs that come in the VOS Historics are wax potted, whereas the aftermarket ones are not. At least mine are anyway. The other things that are probably causing issues:

1. Poor quality wire
2. How the windings are done

Looks like I'm on a pickup quest again. I am praying that the Fralins work out. If not, I'll buy a real set of T-Tops and see how they do.

After all of my searching and tweaking, I'm pretty sure it's not the amp when I can plug a brand new VOS Junior into it and get the kind of tones I was getting the other day. So either metal panels REALLY like single coils, or there's something wrong with the BBs in my guitar. The guitar itself is really nice, so it's a shame Gibson can't do better on the electronics.

JD · Post by JD » Thu May 22, 2008 5:09 pm

Yes, all of the reissue PAF pickups in Gibson guitars are wax potted.

You may be expecting too much. What I mean is a humbucker isn't going to sound like a P-90. Likewise, a P-90 isn't a low output single coil by any means. If the P-90 sound is what you are after, then I'd say stick with it. Alot of guys are quite happy with the BurstBucker PAFs, and tone is very subjective. They are what they are.

I think it's pretty unfair and maybe even a bit ignorant to slam them and suggest that the wire is poor quality, the windings are done somehow incorrectly, etc. without any basis other than it doesn't sound like a single coil or isn't the sound you are after with your rig. JMHO.

jfhudak · Post by **jfhudak** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:35 pm

JD wrote:Yes, all of the reissue PAF pickups in Gibson guitars are wax potted.

You may be expecting too much. What I mean is a humbucker isn't going to sound like a P-90. Likewise, a P-90 isn't a low output single coil by any means. If the P-90 sound is what you are after, then I'd say stick with it. Alot of guys are quite happy with the BurstBucker PAFs, and tone is very subjective. They are what they are.

I think it's pretty unfair and maybe even a bit ignorant to slam them and suggest that the wire is poor quality, the windings are done somehow incorrectly, etc. without any basis other than it doesn't sound like a single coil or isn't the sound you are after with your rig. JMHO.

Fair enough, but they don't sound like PAFs that's for sure. As far as the wire and the windings are concerned, I got that info from pickup winders who I won't mention but can back channel that info to you if you are interested.

Not sure how ignorant I am after 27 years as a player/Gibson owner. I've definitely heard better from them. I'll be the first to say that they build great guitars, and I will give credit where credit is due.

Still, perhaps I was a bit harsh. You do understand, of course, how frustrating the hunt can be when time and money are spent in great quantities.

Coot Boy · Post by **Coot Boy** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:39 pm

JD wrote: I think it's pretty unfair and maybe even a bit ignorant to slam them and suggest that the wire is poor quality, the windings are done somehow incorrectly, etc. without any basis other than it doesn't sound like a single coil or isn't the sound you are after with your rig. JMHO.

+1 on the wire, that's not gonna be a problem trust me, the pickup will be machine wound so depending on your taste, not as nice ( for lack of a better word ) as hand wound. The Fralins should be hand wound so if you don't like them maybe you're a P-90/single coil guy? Have you tried using some boost with the B/Buckers? Also, potting is a necessary evil as far as I'm concerned, whatever top end loss occurs is very small.

Coot Boy · Post by **Coot Boy** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:50 pm

jfhudak wrote: You do understand, of course, how frustrating the hunt can be when time and money are spent in great quantities.

I think the best thing to do is find a pickup maker/winder that you trust, tell them what you are looking for and see if they can wind you up a good set of hand wounds, High Order Jeff would be able to get you a lot happier than just stabbing in the dark so to speak.