"SHREDDER" test (This is SO stupid)

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed May 28, 2008 12:57 pm

I was just thumbing through the latest Guitar World (Malmsteen on cover), and saw that this guy on another forum has some sort of a test that counts how many notes are being played per measure or something. Only regular 'picked' runs are measured (no legato or sweeps). This guy must be a total NERD with too much time on his hands. How could someone even attempt to discern how fast someone is playing with a fucking measurement. Music isnt like that.

I think that there are alot of guy's out there that try to play the 'fastest', but, miss out on the fact that certain solo's or licks by artist may not be 'the fastest', but, due to proper structure, and building up to dynamics and such, SOUND faster and MORE impressive than the one's that may actually be more notes in a shorter amount of time. Prince's "Let's Get Crazy" solo, or "Eruption" are examples of very impressive speed, as far as the EFFECT they have on the listener.

Music, to me, is more about how it makes you feel, as opposed to a mathematical measurement. How do y'all feel about it ?

TomGibbs · Post by **TomGibbs** » Wed May 28, 2008 3:00 pm

Actually, that guy is known as 'Willjay' and he is directly responsible for practically ALL of the Shawn Lane footage available.

And NO he is not a nerd, he just got tired of people saying '_____ is faster than _____' so he actually put it to test.

Maybe you have too much time on your hands making a thread about this issue, when you actually dont know his reason for doign such experiments.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed May 28, 2008 4:36 pm

Who are you trying to convince, yourself or me

. Its all good man, I just personally think a player's 'speed' cant be measured accuratly and that this dude is, you know, maybe misleading people a bit and/or incorrectly evaluating players.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:48 pm

I remember back in the day when Pagey's solo break from Heartbreaker was considered, 'fast'

.
Speed kills remember and it usually kills any emotion as well, except with certain players, imho.
TomGibbs you make a valid point, one thing about this forum, as opposed to 99.999% of the other forums, is that we play nice here with most times respect for the other guys opinion. Billy "Toneslinger" is a very knowledgable guy and one whom I respect a lot here.
Internet posting is slightly more difficult than having a face to face conversation, so much misinterpretation can occur, trust me I know.
We respect your opinion and thanks for the info on the underated Shawn Lane, let's all show respect to the other guy, thanks

yngwie308

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Thu May 29, 2008 6:18 pm

Thank you Dave

. I also respect your opinions very much.

Guitar-Sam · Post by **Guitar-Sam** » Thu May 29, 2008 8:09 pm

I remeber reading a guitar magazine in the late 90's.I think it was TAD(not the tubes

)that said in an articale that he played so many notes in a second that it sounded like all one note on tape................................................................isn't that also known as tastless playing??

Anyways I'm currently playing so fast that it sounds like one stretched note.......oh wait it was one stretched note....nevermind

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu May 29, 2008 9:05 pm

The shredder is actually trying to achieve a speed that is so fast, the individual notes are literally incomprehensible and sound like individual notes so they are actually trying to achieve what most of them dont have already- space and feel- but from the opposite direction. A bit like taking a route around China to get from Manhattan to Hoboken.

Im joking so shredders dont flame me.

demonufo · Post by **demonufo** » Sat May 31, 2008 4:25 pm

I find it more fun comparing how quickly the pages of each guitar magazine go through my paper shredder!

killpop99 · Post by **killpop99** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:19 am

Shredding is great and all, but I agree that music being played that fast usually sounds silly. The smart shredder guys just do it for showing off and the feel of playing fast, but play tastefully when they are actually playing with a band. The others just wank all the time regardless of what they are doing. This shredder test just seems like something to do for fun, its not meant to be music, just like Paul Gilbert can do amazing things, but plays pretty tastefully most of the time. I think of the showing off stuff like juggling, its impressive, but its not meant to be music. The smart shredder guys know this, a lot don't.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:13 am

Well yeah its a novelty. If its just for fun it is fun. Music is music. Its abstract and has nothing to do with technique. Its like saying theres vocabulary and theres creative writing. Theyre 2 completely separate things except that the more you know of the first the more intricate its possible to craft the second but if your not creative your just a boring robot and you can be prodigious at verbiage but your still just intricately crafting boring meaningless shit. Theres nothing more annoying then a guy who waxes poetic as an excuse to show off his vocabulary and the same is true on an instrument.

yngwie308 · Post by **yngwie308** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:24 pm

Anybody we know Dan?

yngwie308

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:18 pm

Ok, ok.

I knew someone would pop that one.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:11 pm

When I listen to a guitar solo I have an 'opinion' as to what I hear, be it how fast it is, or how melodic,etc. I am personally disgusted by the fact that someone would try to 'clock', so to speak, someones choice of notes. That, to me, is 'biased' from the get go. It equal's the "Faster is better" type thought.

If you have to pull some sort of high tech measuring system to do this, then, instead of 'reacting' to how music makes you feel, your trying to put yourself or someone else at the top based on ulterior motives.

Utter Bullshit !

ericopp · Post by **ericopp** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:01 pm

I loved the article - read it this weekend.

Most interesting to me is the mention of Spasmodic Elbow Tension picking, where your lower arm is ocillated as opposed to the speed coming from your wrist. WillJay is right that this elbow technique is "sloppy" compared to the tried/true wrist technique, but it's also about 50% faster; i.e. you can achieve 28 notes per second using your elbow as opposed to a maximum speed of 18 nps with the wrist technique.

Personally, I can't sustain playing continuous scales at anything over 16.5 nps (about Yngwie/Paul Gilbert speed, but not as fast as Michael Angelo).
However, being about to whip about a few quick runs at 25 nps really helps add a dimension to the music. I don't subscribe to the idea that the speed kills emotion or "feel"; i think it's simply one facet of your whole playing style. It shouldn't be the only facet, no doubt, but you can't ignore that it's a valuable skill that has it's time and place.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:49 am

I like Dan's description above.

To study one's technique (ala 'speed test') is very misleading to young guitarist, because many of the greats have inefficient technique. I'm talking Hendrix to Van Halen here. The point of an instrument is to tap into the 'spirit' of music. It's been known for a long time that young player's are attracted to things they can PRACTICE and get better at, like speed and precision. It takes a little longer to attain a great 'feel' as a player.

I honestly believe that at least 95 % of these impressionable young 'shredder's', who are being biased by these silly 'speed tests' will at some point, if they continue to play, reach back and listen to player's that had more skill with soloing technique's.